04-09-2002 23:42									#31
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Well, will they call it Dubya Dubya III?

	04-09-2002 23:42									#32
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oh, god, that was punishing, dashi...

	04-09-2002 23:45									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i'm having a hard time tying China+Pakistan, and Pakistan+NKorea... and also a hard time tying in US+India, India+Taiwan, Taiwan+Philippines, SKorea+Philippines, Japan+Philippines...

It's a chain reaction.

1. India vs. Pakistan
2. China joins vs. India
3. Taiwan declares independence as Chinese army marches away to Tibet, starts China vs. Taiwan on another front.
4. USA joins Taiwan vs. China
5. China attacks US bases in Japan. A few years ago Phillipines would probably come in here but now now.
6. N. Korea attacks S. Korea as US is distracted.

The goal of the exercise is to involve as many countries as possible. Logic is secondary (although wars aren't usually logical )

	04-09-2002 23:52									#34
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er...

quote: 1. India vs. Pakistan 2. China joins vs. India 3. Taiwan declares independence as Chinese army marches away to Tibet, starts China vs. Taiwan on another front. 4. USA joins Taiwan vs. China 5. China attacks US bases in Japan. A few years ago Phillipines would probably come in here but now now. 6. N. Korea attacks S. Korea as US is distracted.

yes, logic seems to be absolutely devoid in this construction, i hvae to say... won't happen.

	05-09-2002 00:04									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Israeli nuclear retaliation is unlikely, even if attacked by chemical or biological weapons. First, most of the chances are that the missiles will be shot down on their way to Israel. Second, even if the missiles land, the warheads are still quite primitive. So, while damage will be caused and tens of people will die, it wont be on mass scale. After this, Israel will most probably join the war but still use only conventional weapons. Maybe, some not too effective bio-chem weapons will be used.

What would Israel's reaction be if Saddam landed several hundred pounds of anthrax on Tel Aviv? Just a few grams of that stuff can kill thousands.

	05-09-2002 00:05									#36
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX yes, i saw him, and yea he appears intelligent. wouldn't you agree that hitler was intelligent? bin laden seems intelligent as well.

I still believe in the relationship:

IQ up = Common Sense / Conscience down.

	05-09-2002 00:57									#37
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quote: Originally posted by leftover_crack American forces bomb Baghdad. Baghdad retaliates with Chemical weapons on..Israel.

That would require some SCUDs, which have all been destroyed. No way is what's left of his airforce getting through to Israel to drop chem bombs, if he even has any, which is highly unlikely. UNSCOM destroyed them all and his means of creating and his technical knowledge base for making them.

	05-09-2002 00:58									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed Taiwan has this nasty little habit of being a democracy, something which still ties it in very closely with skorea and japan...

That's a recent trend, not a habit.

	05-09-2002 00:59									#39
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quote: That's a recent trend, not a habit.

if you want to nitpick, skorea wasn't a democracy until recently, and japan until recently was a one-party state...

	05-09-2002 01:13									#40
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That would require some SCUDs, which have all been destroyed.

It is thought there are still two to three dozen mobile scud launchers in Iraq. I don't like Bush but it he's got an interesting idea here. Iraq says it has disarmed as it agreed to in the treaty which ended the gulf war; Bush says they haven't. By restarting the fighting Iraq qill have to use its weapons thus proving that Bush was right and the Iraqis have been lieing all along.

	05-09-2002 01:38									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It is thought there are still two to three dozen mobile scud launchers in Iraq. I don't like Bush but it he's got an interesting idea here. Iraq says it has disarmed as it agreed to in the treaty which ended the gulf war; Bush says they haven't. By restarting the fighting Iraq qill have to use its weapons thus proving that Bush was right and the Iraqis have been lieing all along.

IIRC, Syria is the country with an large launcher-to-missile proportion.

	05-09-2002 02:36									#42
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A scenario of nuclear war (satire ):

United Staes declares war on Iraq
Iraq retals on Israel and hosts terror acts there
Israel nukes Iraq (at least we've got pretext to do that!)
Pakistan nukes Israel (we won't tolerate such attacks on Islam!)
USA nukes Pakistan (we will die but we will defend Israel!)
China nukes USA (WTF?! You are nuking our allies?!)
India nukes China (Well, USA helped us to do what we always wanted but didn't did. So, don't nuke them!)
Russia nukes India (PR of China, once created by once ally Mao! It is a shame there is no China anymore! Catch that, Indians!!!)
Great Britain nukes Russia (Long live the queen!)
France nukes Great Britain (We do what we always wanted to)
Aliens nukes France (No, there won't be any nuclear countries in Earth anymore)
God nukes Aliens (Bad, bad ones... Why always when I create the universe everything ends up this way?)
Allah nukes God (...because I can create a better universe!)
Allah nukes himself (There are no more believers, no more ones who'll die for me - time has came to commit a suicide)

	05-09-2002 03:07									#43
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Speaking of nuclear weapons, but why didn't anyone, anywhere in the galaxy, use nuclear weapons in battles in the Star Trek or even the Star Wars series?

	05-09-2002 03:13									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Speaking of nuclear weapons, but why didn't anyone, anywhere in the galaxy, use nuclear weapons in battles in the Star Trek or even the Star Wars series?

Maybe they were too pathetic to be useful in the 23rd century? I know humans, Vulcans, and Klingons all had nuclear wars at some point in "history".

	05-09-2002 03:16									#45
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Allah is the same God as God!
(Uh, it sounds a bit...)

	05-09-2002 04:17									#46
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am i the only one who feels that WWIII began about a year ago? no im not just being sarcastic.

ask yourself, when did WWII begin? it was well before the whole world freaked and started declaring war on each other.

	05-09-2002 04:30									#47
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I agree with Xeones; but will that be actually regarded as the opening to WWIII; or will it not? a lot of things happen before wars which time does not really remember.


But America being stupid enough to attack Iraq (and thus the middle east ) will end in a massive war; and a massive radioactive mess.

	05-09-2002 05:09									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Speaking of nuclear weapons, but why didn't anyone, anywhere in the galaxy, use nuclear weapons in battles in the Star Trek or even the Star Wars series?

The Earth-Romulan war was fought with Nuclear weapons. The Rpmulans even used a Nuclear mine on the Enterprise inBalence of Terror.

In the Return of the Jedi novelization, Admiral Akbar's flagship, Home One shakes in the begining of the battle when TIE Bombers pelt it with nukes.

	05-09-2002 05:52									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It is thought there are still two to three dozen mobile scud launchers in Iraq. Iraq says it has disarmed as it agreed to in the treaty which ended the gulf war; Bush says they haven't. By restarting the fighting Iraq qill have to use its weapons thus proving that Bush was right and the Iraqis have been lieing all along.

You are correct. The History channel did a story on this a few weeks ago, and some of the military personal and inspector admitted to not finding all of them. Remember no inspector was allow in any of his vacation homes. How many did he have, 20 or more?

	05-09-2002 05:57									#50
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Inspectors are a dead issue. If 600 aircraft and 6 spy satelittes cant find 30 SCUDS in the Iraqi Desert in 1991. I doubt some guys in fords with jeans and cowboy hat could find them either.

	05-09-2002 06:47									#51
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I agree inspections would be a farce designed be Sadam to continue delaying military action. For ten years they've been saying they will let in the inspectors but everytime the inspectors got close a bunch of Iraqi thugs would show up and tell them to leave. The only way to get the Iraqis to live up to their treaty obligations is to force them.

	05-09-2002 07:04									#52
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I can't say for sure whether this will turn into a massive mobilized ground war (WW3). I doubt it. I think the India/Pakistan situation was more dangerous. Iraq may launch a Chem/Bio attack, but it would be against Israel, and it would only ensure that Baghdad will be glowing in the dark.

I don't think China will do anything. They don't have the strategic capability to inflict any real damage on the US. Russia's not looking for a nuke fight, and I think they'll stay on the side of the EU which will no doubt back the US if Iraq or China does anything aggressive.

WW3? No... Another Vietnam is more likely. As much as the US would like to think they've had success in Afghanistan, they have only gotten the Taliban out of power and not effectively damaged Al Qaeda (IMO).

	05-09-2002 11:49									#53
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I agree. Al Qaeda got out with only light damage. That's what the we get for listening to the butt covering weanies who said "we won't get any casualties if we let the locals do all the fighting; besides they're our friends and would never let the Arabs get away".

	05-09-2002 11:49									#54
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They are called mountains. It allows people to get away

	05-09-2002 13:04									#55
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The reports on CNN were that OBL bribed a couple of Afghan warlords to let him escape Tora Bora unmolested. Whither that is correct or not...

	05-09-2002 16:39									#56
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Beware when predicting the Apocalypse, since whenever an event rocks the dominant mindset people tend to anticipate the end. The world was supposed to have ended with the fall of the First Temple, the Black Plague, and the influenza epidemic after World War I.

	05-09-2002 18:29									#57
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Sonic, the problem with your scn is that for the longest time, the USSR/Russia and India were allies against China's Yellow Peril...

and yeah, the Vulcans had one, so did the Humans. I don't know about the Klingons.

in Dune, Salusa Secundus was once the home of the Empire, but then it was nuked by some renegade house-- and that's why they're now on Kaitain.

	05-09-2002 19:47									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Speaking of nuclear weapons, but why didn't anyone, anywhere in the galaxy, use nuclear weapons in battles in the Star Trek or even the Star Wars series?

Well, I've always thought of it this way -

What are the main advantages/strengths of a nuclear weapon?

1. The shockwave
2. The heat
3. The radiation.

1. is nullified almost entirely by the fact that in space, there is no carrier substance (air, water) for the shockwave. Of course, this does not apply with ground battles, but since when did Star Trek have those on a big scale?
2. and 3. are fair things, but considering the fact that the starships in Star Trek seem to be able to take serious punishment, I'd guess the armour layer and force fields would be strong enough to repulse or redirect harmful radiation or heat.
So the only big advantage nukes would have, the bigass shockwave, is lost in space. Unless it's a torpedo sorta thing that penetrates the core of the ship and then detonate inside. Hm, I wonder if a nuke would have a shockwave effect in a dense cloud of gas dispensed out to space?

	05-09-2002 19:56									#59
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Nukes were part of the Star Trek history... they were used in the third world war. And in one of the old original Star Trek episodes, the one with the first Romulan sighting where the guy who played Sarek (spocks dad) played the Romulan captain, I remember the Romulans jettisoned some space debris and hid a nuke in it. The nuke went off pretty close to the Enterprise and did some damage.

But overall, I'd say nukes wouldn't be a good idea to have on a starship. The radiation from the weapons grade materials would definitely pose significant health risks to the crew. Plus, with the shielding those ships have, the radiation wouldn't affect the ships from the outside. I think the controlled burst of energy in the phasers and the dense power of the photon torpedoes are much better weapons than nukes would be anyways.

	05-09-2002 20:18									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Sava But overall, I'd say nukes wouldn't be a good idea to have on a starship. The radiation from the weapons grade materials would definitely pose significant health risks to the crew. Plus, with the shielding those ships have, the radiation wouldn't affect the ships from the outside. I think the controlled burst of energy in the phasers and the dense power of the photon torpedoes are much better weapons than nukes would be anyways.

Where's the logic in using my massively effective shields to protect me from radiation outside the ship and not using it to protect the people inside the ship from the radiation hazards therein.

With apologies to Dr. McCoy!