04-09-2002 17:13									#1
	Cultural Victories Get a bigger avatar today!

I can't seem to acheive one, even on low levels of difficulty. If I try for the 100K culture, I usually win by domination before I've got the points.

I remain to be convinced the 20K city is even possible. There simply isn't enough time to get there. The best I've ever got is 17-18K.

I've won every other way, and I want to try this.Can someone give me some tips on how to win by culture?

	04-09-2002 17:36									#2
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Turn off domination victory.

	04-09-2002 17:42									#3
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I've only won by culture once (and it was a surprise) so take these comments with a grain of salt. I think that the key issue for a cultural victory is building the ancient wonders that give good cultural points (you have them for a long time so the points mount up) . Build your wonders in one city. Although I build temples, cathedrals, and keep my people happy etc and go for the middle age cultural wonders I dont do what I suggested above and so dont win by culture. There has to be a connection.

	04-09-2002 18:08									#4
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quote: Originally posted by 0zymandias I can't seem to acheive one, even on low levels of difficulty. If I try for the 100K culture, I usually win by domination before I've got the points.

Us the mapstat program to determine your domination limit. If you are a few tiles from the domination limit, you can relocate some of your desert cities to the grassland or something. Most importantly, do not build too much culture at your border cities, you have to control the expansion of your border to avoid hitting the domination limit.

The mapstat program can be downloaded at the "civfanatics" site.

	04-09-2002 18:12									#5
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I believe that what Spencer says is correct. Ancient wonders are the key to a super-culture city victory. I haven't won by culture yet, even though I culturally dominate almost every game I play... there is always a worthy opponent that has a bit more than 50% of my culture, so having more than 100k culture points alone will not win the game for me.

For the 100k win, you need lots of culturally developed cities (lots of wonders and literally everything that produces some culture) PLUS no real competitor - I believe that often the only choice is to completely destroy the AI civ that is blocking your 100k victory...

For a 20k city victory, you will want as many ancient wonders in a single city (culture points for a specific improvement/wonder double after 1000 years, that is why you need to build your culture as early as possible).

	04-09-2002 18:45									#6
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I find on the hardest difficulty levels that unless you go out and wage war from the very start and continue that philosophy until the very end then the other AIs get an unassailable lead in technology and wonders. The waging war strategy generally leads to you being way behind in culture but at least concurrent in tech & size.

In the end game, I normally have to make a bee-line to the enemy's capital in order to destroy their spaceship. This normally results in me destroying that civ anyway as in my last game where there were just three of us left by the end game and those two remaining AIs had to die when they got close to winning the space race.

Never ever got close to winning by culture since I moved up from the easy difficulty levels. Might have to try that one day instead of dominating, would mean a nice change from the point-and-click domination of the 50 mobile armour brigades.

	04-09-2002 18:57									#7
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The best way to win culturally is an ICS approach. Build tons of closely spaced cities, all with the culture improvements in. Pick Babylon, and build a temple, library, cathedral, university, colosseum etc (in that order) in every city. Early on, alternate between building settlers and temples in cities. Later on build the higher up improvements in your core cities, gradually spreading outward in a wave. You should easily win a 100K cultural victory.

	04-09-2002 19:14									#8
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By the way, Oracle is an amazing wonder for an early culture victory. Before it expires, all your temples' culture values are doubled (in addition to the happiness effects).

	04-09-2002 19:17									#9
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Spencer and Vondrack are correct. The key is to build many early wonders (and city improvements, too!) with big cultural value (Pyramids, Great Library, Hanging Gardens, Sistine Chappel, etc). The reason for this is that after one thousand years, each cultural building doubles its cultural value (the "per turn" value) and your city starts to accumulate culture even faster, also with the help of additional modern wonders (Newton's University, Shakespeare's Theatre, etc). When you build several wonders at a time, build the culturally richest wonder in your "20k" city.
I've achieved cultural victory with 20K city once or twice and was several times close to it (and only because I didn't buid all my wonders in the same city).

DrFell is also right. The cultural value of a city doesn't depend on the city's size, so "tons of closely spaced cities" with all the cultural improvements in it will produce the desired victory.

Last edited by Tiberius on 04-09-2002 at 19:32

	04-09-2002 19:20									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DrFell By the way, Oracle is an amazing wonder for an early culture victory. Before it expires, all your temples' culture values are doubled (in addition to the happiness effects).

AFAIK, it is not because of the Oracle, but because after 1000 years the cultural value of any building doubles. It was probably a coincidence that the 1000 years had passed before your Oracle became obsolate.

	04-09-2002 19:21									#11
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You can get Cultural Victories on huge maps pretty easily.

	04-09-2002 19:30									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless You can get Cultural Victories on huge maps pretty easily.

Firaxis should have made the cultural victory points depend on the map's size. Thank God I don't play on huge maps. It would be too easy to win.

	04-09-2002 19:35									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Firaxis should have made the cultural victory points depend on the map's size. Thank God I don't play on huge maps. It would be too easy to win.

Yeah, 100 cities producing 10 culture points per turn(very easy to achieve btw), and you have reached 100,000 in only 100 turns.

But it's damn hard to achieve domination victory on a huge map.

	04-09-2002 20:10									#14
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Well, that's only if you start the game with 100 cities...

But anyway, I think the point is to look at what size maps you are playing on. On a huge map, you're almost required to turn off Cultural victory otherwise you'll never get into the Industrial age.

On smaller maps, if you want to see a cultural victory turn off the appropriate victory condition which appears most often.

Personally, I hate cultural victories. You're cruising along, fighting wars, building your empire and then, PANG!, game over. No questions asked. You win. Leaves one feeling empty.

	04-09-2002 20:16									#15
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quote: Originally posted by fittstim Well, that's only if you start the game with 100 cities...

Having 100 cities by 1250AD is quite easy.

Once I was 2-3 turns away from a domination victory until that stupid culture thing kicked in.

	05-09-2002 04:31									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius AFAIK, it is not because of the Oracle, but because after 1000 years the cultural value of any building doubles. It was probably a coincidence that the 1000 years had passed before your Oracle became obsolate.

Ahehe... that was something I'd not actually tested before. Have not yet used the oracle in a culture victory game, but I'm sure I heard somewhere it did double the culture of your temples. I may be wrong though, and I guess this is easy to test.

As for 100 cities... on a huge pangea using ICS, 100-150 cities by *10AD* is quite possible. Generally you need to be an experienced ICSer to do it, but it is very possible.

	05-09-2002 04:37									#17
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH I've only won by culture once (and it was a surprise) so take these comments with a grain of salt. I think that the key issue for a cultural victory is building the ancient wonders that give good cultural points (you have them for a long time so the points mount up) . Build your wonders in one city. Although I build temples, cathedrals, and keep my people happy etc and go for the middle age cultural wonders I dont do what I suggested above and so dont win by culture. There has to be a connection.

I finnaly got fed up with culture win (20k in my captial city) and unchecked it.

An Oracle, Pyramid, G Library, G Lighthouse and the Colossus topped with all the improvments generaly causes a culture win by mid industrial for me.

	05-09-2002 04:52									#18
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I also turn off the cultural victory option most of the time. I tend to play on huge maps, and at the lowest levels cultural victories are more common on those maps.

In fact, I've never gotten a domination victory. Not even once. I doubt I've even come close.

And if I am going for a cultural victory, I do usually build as many wonders as possible, and focus more on building cultural buildings than on military units.

Now here is a question to ponder. When going for cultural victory, when at the point of deciding between building cathedral or colluseum, which is better to choose first? Higher costing but more cultural cathedral or cheaper and less cultural colluseum?

	05-09-2002 05:03									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Bleyn In fact, I've never gotten a domination victory. Not even once. I doubt I've even come close.

If your going for a conquest victory, don't be surprised if this pops up.

quote: And if I am going for a cultural victory, I do usually build as many wonders as possible, and focus more on building cultural buildings than on military units.

Try to build as many wonders as possible in the same city (capital pref). Be nice to the world, the most military you would need is 3 military units per city (2 defenders, and 1 offensive type unit).

quote: Now here is a question to ponder. When going for cultural victory, when at the point of deciding between building cathedral or colluseum, which is better to choose first? Higher costing but more cultural cathedral or cheaper and less cultural colluseum?

A Cathedral first, it's three culture points instead of just 2 for Colosseum.