08-09-2002 14:39									#31
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As for the Realism of Cruise Missiles sinking Ships:

There are certain types of Anti-Sub-Missiles.

They just deliver a Torpedo via Air to a Point near your Sub and the Torpedo then searches for your Sub upon entering water.

The american Navy for example has the ASROC but there are certain other States (such as China) which have their own Versions of Anti Sub Missiles.

	08-09-2002 17:30									#32
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metalhead,

were you able to find out what was the reason for the AI knowing your sub location? Was there a sub in that coastal city? Or are we left with that the AI got the location through stealing your troops positions or through the well-known and confirmed troop position cheat?

	08-09-2002 22:43									#33
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack metalhead, were you able to find out what was the reason for the AI knowing your sub location? Was there a sub in that coastal city? Or are we left with that the AI got the location through ... the well-known and confirmed troop position cheat?

(Italics added)

No, it COULDN'T be the troop position cheat! They taught the AI to totally ignore sub positions (except to avoid collisions when not at war, and therefore starting a war), several versions ago!!

	09-09-2002 00:48									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe No, it COULDN'T be the troop position cheat! They taught the AI to totally ignore sub positions (except to avoid collisions when not at war, and therefore starting a war), several versions ago!!

Interesting, did not know that. So, you say that if I put a sub into a city, the AI will know nothing about it? Although it knows about other units in the city?

Just BTW... this is a pure ignorance/forgetfullness on my side... what exactly was confirmed regarding the troop position cheat? Do the AIs know positions of ALL your troops, or just those stationed in cities?

	09-09-2002 02:15									#35
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I can only say that I have stationed a sub in the open to act as an early warning, in a well trafficed area and boom, no more ships came by. It does mean much as I seldom use them and therefore do not have in depth knowledge. I have not seen them come for them.

	09-09-2002 08:16									#36
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Vondrack, sorry I had not mentioned it, but the "AI ignores submarines" programming was mentioned by Firaxis (Soren, I believe).
My understanding is that the AI knowing world-wide troop positions has NOT been explicitly confirmed by Firaxis, but is just from personal observations.

	09-09-2002 09:03									#37
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Well, when I looked at their troop positions, there was a sub in a nearby city - although not the one I was closest to, and not one within 2 squares. It could have been moved there any time without me knowing it, as I have turned off animation for the AI's moves. I think it is likely that I was spotted by an enemy sub and then shot at, but it still remains a mystery to me why the AI would target my sub, when my battleships were bombarding the hell out of their coastal cities. Plus, targeting an underwater vessel with a cruise missile is shady to begin with.

The only conclusion I can draw is that I was either spotted by an enemy sub, and then shot at, or the AI just happened to know where my sub was and then shot at it. Does that help?

	09-09-2002 10:20									#38
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Yes, it does. If you have switched off the animation for enemy moves, then it makes sense... I never do that in order to be warned of things like this (but then, I play on Standard maps only... so it is bearable). But with no moves shown, an enemy sub can spot you without you spotting it. Thanks for the explanation!

	09-09-2002 10:33									#39
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metalhead,
Turning off animations: Having a reasonably quick computer that has a totally whimpy graphics card (i.e., none to speak of, and no AGP slot to boot), I turn off animations during my turn, but during warfare try to remember to turn them on between my turns so I can see what the enemy is doing.

Is it possible that another naval vessel ran into your sub, exposing it? I don't have a handle on whether that would be possible without your knowing with animation off (could you have just "missed it?").

	09-09-2002 14:01									#40
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In the vicious sea battle currently rolling around my current game I've noticed you get a notification if you are about to ram a sub of a friendly nation and none for enemy subs. In fact, the reason for the second is that the AI has lost many galleons to my subs. Unless the loon is trying to get them...

	09-09-2002 18:06									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe metalhead, Turning off animations: Having a reasonably quick computer that has a totally whimpy graphics card (i.e., none to speak of, and no AGP slot to boot), I turn off animations during my turn, but during warfare try to remember to turn them on between my turns so I can see what the enemy is doing. Is it possible that another naval vessel ran into your sub, exposing it? I don't have a handle on whether that would be possible without your knowing with animation off (could you have just "missed it?").

My computer is a dinosaur these days, and having all animations on is way too annoying to me. There wasn't a battle with my sub before it got shot - I have had the AI run into my subs on occasion, and a battle ensues which always ends up with my sub being sunk. The most obvious answer would be that the nearby enemy sub had been patrolling the coastal waters and spotted my sub without me knowing it, but I don't know for sure. I wonder if anyone else has had a sub sunken by a cruise missile?

	09-09-2002 21:02									#42
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quote: Originally posted by metalhead I wonder if anyone else has had a sub sunken by a cruise missile?

Yes, I had. Once upon a time, my sub was surrounded by enemy subs. Luckly it was near the shore of my home continent, so my cruise missile could pick them out one by one.