04-09-2002 21:40									#1
	Trading luxuries Suffering from ads?

Unless things go terribly wrong, we'll have trade routes with France and Greece in several turns. Yay!!

Here is summary of what we can currently trade:

* To Greece:
- Dyes.
- Wines (as soon as we've secured two sources).
* To France:
- Dyes.
- Wines (as soon as we've secured two sources). The funny part is that the wine tiles are in what used to be French territory, so basically we'll be selling them their wines back!
- Horses (we'll have another source of horses when we connect the formerly French cities).

I've opened this thread to discuss trade options and to raise suggestions for ways to get the most out of luxury trade. My own suggestions for this moment are:

1. Rush the temple in Marseilles so we'll have two sources of wine as soon as possible.
2. Either take Tyre by force or sign a peace treaty with Persia, and then dig a road to Tyre. I'd rather take Tyre by force but I'm bringing up both options because we'll get a trade route with Persia once we connect to Tyre either way. Furthermore, once England connects Hastings to the rest of its territory (requires digging a road in one tile NW of Hastings) we'll have a trade route to England as well (as long as we're at peace with Persia). I believe both Persia and England will be interested in our dyes.

	04-09-2002 21:45									#2
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I suspect you are right on all accounts. But what do you feel/think we may get for them? My past experience shows that the AI doesn't value lux as much as we do.

	04-09-2002 21:55									#3
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Sometime the AI will pay quite a lot if you have a monopoly, or near monopoly, on a luxury. The key is getting control of all of the dyes in the world, once we do, setting the price for them should be easier.

	04-09-2002 22:04									#4
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The civ with the biggest pop should normally offer the best prices.

	04-09-2002 22:06									#5
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Another proposal: build a town in the tile SW SW SW SW S of Here It Is and connect it to the trade network to acquire a second source of iron so we can trade it to another civ.
See attached image.

EDIT: Still can't attach images for some reason. You can view the map here.

	04-09-2002 22:08									#6
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Kinda off topic, but the lost civs will have exclusive luxuries also. Since they tend to be continentally specifc.

So they have silk and gems, and fur.


We have dyes, incense, ivory, spice, and wine.

Wine - scattered everywhere would be hard to corner the market.

Dyes mostly us , see any more?

Spices, Persia and Aztecs. We need to take Persia's.

Incense, America and Persia. We need to take both.

Ivory, Greek coast, could take it after finishing off America. Quick march to the coast, declare war, seize Ivory and make peace.

Hmm, we're in a good position to corner luxuries.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 05-09-2002 at 01:01

	04-09-2002 23:12									#7
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I like your way of thinking regarding cornering luxury markets. I also second what you said about the lost civs: large continents always have at least one unique luxury so we'll be able to monopolize some luxuries to the lost civs, and if we grab a piece of land from one of the lost continents we could monopolize some luxuries to the entire of Abananaba as well.

	05-09-2002 00:39									#8
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Hmm...
The workers digging roads in the tiles near Chartres and Marseilles should be done within 2 turns. Then it's up to the French worker in Chartres to complete the French part of the road so we can trade with France and Greece.
AFAIK digging a road takes 9 turns. Does anybody know how long that French worker has been digging?

	05-09-2002 01:18									#9
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As would have been seen in my report (sigh), that French Worker was there working when our Workers moved towards Chartres to build the road. So for at least 3 turns of work have been done.

	05-09-2002 02:49									#10
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb We have dyes, incense, ivory, spice, and wine. Dyes mostly us , see any more? Hmm, we're in a good position to corner luxuries.

The Russians have dyes.

	05-09-2002 02:59									#11
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I know this isn't useful right now, but just to float the idea -- there's always a chance that Uber Isle might have a lux or two too that can't be found on our Continent...

-- adaMada

	05-09-2002 03:04									#12
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada I know this isn't useful right now, but just to float the idea -- there's always a chance that Uber Isle might have a lux or two too that can't be found on our Continent... -- adaMada

If it does, it's most likely going to have other civs. But I think based on its location, that it will be considered a fragment off of our current continent and will pull from the same luxury pool.

My feelings are that the other civs are on a completely different continent system in the Dark Ocean between the Greeks and the Persians.

Now, it might be possible that the island is a finger sticking out from that continent but Civ3 usually doesn't place them that close unless their small, And a small continent would have been completely colonized by an Ai civ by now and they would have sent a galley over.

	05-09-2002 03:09									#13
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada I know this isn't useful right now, but just to float the idea -- there's always a chance that Uber Isle might have a lux or two too that can't be found on our Continent... -- adaMada

Uber Isle seems to be an island. I rarely see luxuries in islands, in my games... Resources, maybe.

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb If it does, it's most likely going to have other civs.

Ghengis is right, IMO.

Note: this is my post #400. I need 100 more to get my avatar... Well, Shiber can do this in a weekend!

	05-09-2002 03:41									#14
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Just thought I'd point out that there might be something there... many thought Uber Isle would be much smaller than it is, so we may be supprised again.

quote: Note: this is my post #400. I need 100 more to get my avatar... Well, Shiber can do this in a weekend!

I can do an Avitar, but can't come up with one worth doing, and don't like the idea of changing a lot -- I tend to identify people by their Avitars, so I won't mess people up and change lots.

Right now, though, I'm only a few posts away from one post per day (an achievement if you left for two years without posting as I did) and a hundred away from King, so I can sympathize .

-- adaMada

	05-09-2002 06:08									#15
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I suspect that there will not be any luxuries on Uber Isle, but the possibility of resources exists. Another reason to get another settler there right away.

	06-09-2002 12:13									#16
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In case people haven't noticed the Rome is connected to Russia so once our harbor is complete we'll have a trade route to Russia as well.

	06-09-2002 12:26									#17
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Haven't looked at the save yet, but the lazy French worker is actually working on a road now eh?

That brings up an interesting question. Should I still move our workers into Chartres territory to build our own road, or just scrap that plan and wait for the French worker to complete a road?

	06-09-2002 12:32									#18
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I've just had a disturbing thought: Rome is likely to demand our dyes a turn after we complete the harbor. Therefore I believe we must trade our dyes to the Romans for whatever deal is possible (even if it's a lousy one) the moment our harbor is complete (unless the Rome strikes a deal with Russia for their dyes before we complete our harbor).
Furthermore, it'd be a good idea to try to get Persia's iron. It's a good idea anyway since it'll reduce the threat from Persia to nothing and enable us to take the Pyramids easily (now or in a future campaign), but also because we'll be able to trade it with Russia. They will surely pay a SWEET sum of lpt for it, plus it's in our interest to support the Russians to prevent Rome from further expanding by ways of conquest.

	06-09-2002 12:33									#19
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quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit Haven't looked at the save yet, but the lazy French worker is actually working on a road now eh? That brings up an interesting question. Should I still move our workers into Chartres territory to build our own road, or just scrap that plan and wait for the French worker to complete a road?

According to MWIA the French worker has been working on that tile for 3 turns now so there's no point in "helping" him.

	06-09-2002 12:41									#20
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Yeah - at least 3 turns as it was there and working when our workers moved towards Chartres.

Luxuries trade as soon as we can will be very nice, giving us the Lytons needed to support us in either the wars against America or Persia, or in developing our nation.