06-09-2002 09:26									#1
	Oppositions to Arabs Inflate your Upload Space

I have played the Civilization series for a very long time and consider myself an expert of civ 2 (soon civ 3), but I am newbie here. After browsing around the website I came across many people who were disappointed that the Arabs were introduced to the Play the World expansion. There argument was that the Babylonians and Persians are Arabs, and that, because of this, are not to be considered a civ.

I was just curious if these people felt the same way towards the Americans, as they are basically the English.

	06-09-2002 09:33									#2
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Well, basically the english in origins, I supose .
But tell us Italian/english/irish/scotch/slavic/polish that we are basically english and you'll get your ass handed to you...

Kman

	06-09-2002 09:40									#3
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i object to the arabs eing in for pure geopgraphic reasons (on a world map). Persia, Babylon, the Arabs, Turkey (Ottomans), and the Egyptians, are all right next to eachother (the middle east).

meanwhile, the Aztecs can colonize all of south america realitavely unopposed... some Inca would help, no?

	06-09-2002 09:51									#4
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whats up Kapt'n KruX.

I agree, and I believe our Newbie friend here agrees as well. I hate how on the world map South America is just this giant void...*sigh*. Europe is packed with civs (and perhaps rightfully so), but now the middle east will be too. The Carthaginians will kinda clutter the medditeranian, but they will help fill the void of Africa, and the Mongolians and Koreans will be helpful in filling the Siberian void. But the entire friggin continent of SA will remain uninhabited. I guess I could always start the French there, afterall, who cares about the French?

Kman

	06-09-2002 09:51									#5
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX i object to the arabs eing in for pure geopgraphic reasons (on a world map). Persia, Babylon, the Arabs, Turkey (Ottomans), and the Egyptians, are all right next to eachother (the middle east). meanwhile, the Aztecs can colonize all of south america realitavely unopposed... some Inca would help, no?

Oooooo! , Another world map fan.
I'm also a big fan of Incas(and their UU, Inti Warriors) being introduced. In fact I replaced the Iroquois with them just this week in my world scenario.

But you say it would just be too crowded on the world map. Like it isn't already crowded over there in Eupore and the Mediteranean anyways.

Would you object to Arabs on a random map?

For you Incan fans:
-Incan capital: Qosqo or Cuzco
-UU: Inti Warriors: 2/1/1 warriors.
-Inti, I believe, is Quechuan for sun, which is the Incan god.

	06-09-2002 09:53									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman whats up Kapt'n KruX. I agree, and I believe our Newbie friend here agrees as well. I hate how on the world map South America is just this giant void...*sigh*. Europe is packed with civs (and perhaps rightfully so), but now the middle east will be too. The Carthaginians will kinda clutter the medditeranian, but they will help fill the void of Africa, and the Mongolians and Koreans will be helpful in filling the Siberian void. But the entire friggin continent of SA will remain uninhabited. I guess I could always start the French there, afterall, who cares about the French? Kman

I like France.
Especially the Armee de L'air of WW2.
Pierre Legloan and Dewoitine D.520 rule!

	06-09-2002 11:45									#7
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Hmm, let's see here....humans originated in africa..so more time for various societies to develop in the surrounding area...might explain some things, no? Though, if anything, I don't see why you aren't complaining that they should just *add* some more civs, why bother removing any? At least they are giving as some of the older European civs, as the English, French, and Germans (as countries) are relatively young (though not as young as the USA). Heck, Egypt (the Egypt in civ III) was gone by the time England, France, and Germany become countries.

It would be nice to have some more civs from all over the world. There were a lot more Civs in Asia, and a lot more in the Americas too. Where are the Mayans? Heck, you could have 60+ good, strong historical civs, I'm sure...quite easily. It is not too hard. It's just too bad you can't have *real* alternative civs....think of the Iroquois who traded with the Incas and with selective breeding had domesticated riding Llamas....ahh...that would be cool. Heh.

-Moose

	06-09-2002 22:39									#8
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hi ,

if they go for N-africa its fine , .....

but they should only be in if the Israeli are in , ....

Firaxis , please include them !

have a nice day

	07-09-2002 00:32									#9
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What I want to know is why no one to my knoledge has objected to the Celts?

	07-09-2002 00:38									#10
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quote: Originally posted by JtheJackal What I want to know is why no one to my knoledge has objected to the Celts?

Heck, what about objecting to Spain? England, France, Germany, and Spain are not only the same area of the world, but those countries have existed during the same time periods. At least the Celts are before this.

-Moose

edit: grammer

	07-09-2002 00:43									#11
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Both the Celts and Arabs are fine choises. It's just too bad the Incas or Mayans wont be in PTW.

	07-09-2002 01:27									#12
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quote: but they should only be in if the Israeli are in

Why? The Arabs empire spaned from Spain to India at one point. The Israelis have never had an empire close to that size. Not to mention their skill in the sciences and trading.

	07-09-2002 08:20									#13
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Israelis are always managing the money of the traditional occidental civs. They are more a sector of a occidental society than a tribe like for example (and is JUST and example) gypsies. We only can see them as a tribe looking their home country, and this is only possible from the III bC to the II aC century and the XX one. In the old times (in the King David period) they are just another small-medium kingdom.

Also, if you say me "they created the biggest religion in the world" I have to remember that they DON'T believe in that religion. The international successful of it borns with the simple faith of the original people. If they were israeilian is pure casuality. That's all.

Finally, if you want put israelinians for the XX/XXI centuries problems, I see that like a prize for create disorder in an area that could stayed in order if everybody respected the UN original treat.

About the actual situation, everybody can say me that the problem is what is doing the other, but I can remember a man: Issac Rabin. Who killed him?

Everybdoy should solve their problems. About Jerusalem, why not bicapitality like Vatican City/Rome, it is two cities in one. Create a special peace/religious area with the old city (regented by a open-minded council, 50%/50%) or a new small state, build the new hebrew temple under the two mosques and everybody is happy. (BTW, you will finally discover if the Arc is inside).

Last edited by XarXo on 07-09-2002 at 08:40

	07-09-2002 08:58									#14
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well, back to the topic...

Arabs are a good choice for a civ. So are Israelis, Celts, and Spanish.

Why? Because they all left their mark on the world.

Celts, who are the least well known of the bunch, traded extensively throughout Europe(and into India I beleve).

I would like the incans to be in.

	07-09-2002 09:08									#15
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I want Incas too

	07-09-2002 09:32									#16
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If the Israelis ever got in they should and most likely would be called the Hebrews as they were actually a civilization.

	07-09-2002 09:41									#17
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quote: Originally posted by JtheJackal What I want to know is why no one to my knoledge has objected to the Celts?

The Celts were a great early European Civilization and their culture dominated much of Europe. They developed a large trading network and they were the first European civilization to learn the secret of iron working. The Celts were great warriors whom people like Julius Ceaser spent much of their life fighting against and they even succeeded in capturing Rome and pludering Delphi.

The Arabs are one of the great civs of the world, there is no denying it, but the game already has to many middle eastern civs. I'm going to delete the Arabs and mod the Incas in instead. This will improve the game balance and will prevent the Aztecs from having a cake walk.

	07-09-2002 15:04									#18
	Re: Oppositions to Arabs Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Ikarus I have played the Civilization series for a very long time and consider myself an expert of civ 2 (soon civ 3), but I am newbie here. After browsing around the website I came across many people who were disappointed that the Arabs were introduced to the Play the World expansion. There argument was that the Babylonians and Persians are Arabs, and that, because of this, are not to be considered a civ. I was just curious if these people felt the same way towards the Americans, as they are basically the English.

Probably, but in both cases these people would be wrong.
Molly Bloom already explained about Arabia, Babylon and Persia in another thread.
I doubt very much that even 50% of the American citizens are of English ancestry (and that was centuries ago).

	08-09-2002 01:00									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ikarus Oooooo! , Another world map fan. I'm also a big fan of Incas(and their UU, Inti Warriors) being introduced. In fact I replaced the Iroquois with them just this week in my world scenario. But you say it would just be too crowded on the world map. Like it isn't already crowded over there in Eupore and the Mediteranean anyways. Would you object to Arabs on a random map? For you Incan fans: -Incan capital: Qosqo or Cuzco -UU: Inti Warriors: 2/1/1 warriors. -Inti, I believe, is Quechuan for sun, which is the Incan god.

Does this mean there is a world map included in the new game?

	08-09-2002 01:03									#20
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Does this mean there is an actual world map included in the new version?

	08-09-2002 01:28									#21
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Hopefully we will get a world map that is at least marginally correct this time around. Did any of you ever play the other world map Firaxis put out? I never knew everything north of the 49th was covered in glacial ice but I guess it must be; after all that's how Firaxis portrayed it.

	08-09-2002 16:54									#22
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quote: Originally posted by roalan Does this mean there is an actual world map included in the new version?

hi ,

in order to make a good playable realistic map they need to go to at least 320X320 , 384X384 would be better , ......

since they are not going to do it , ....

there are some good maps , and if you mod them a bit they are okay , but the middle east is like always a small place , .....

example ; Japan , make it a bit bigger , ....

have a nice day

	08-09-2002 17:59									#23
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Currently the with custom map size we can only go to 256x256. Never play such big maps before but it gonna kill an average powered PC. Are they adding more players in PTW or is it still at 16?

	08-09-2002 18:46									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Blue Moose Hmm, let's see here....humans originated in africa..so more time for various societies to develop in the surrounding area...might explain some things, no? Though, if anything, I don't see why you aren't complaining that they should just *add* some more civs, why bother removing any? At least they are giving as some of the older European civs, as the English, French, and Germans (as countries) are relatively young (though not as young as the USA). Heck, Egypt (the Egypt in civ III) was gone by the time England, France, and Germany become countries. It would be nice to have some more civs from all over the world. There were a lot more Civs in Asia, and a lot more in the Americas too. Where are the Mayans? Heck, you could have 60+ good, strong historical civs, I'm sure...quite easily. It is not too hard. It's just too bad you can't have *real* alternative civs....think of the Iroquois who traded with the Incas and with selective breeding had domesticated riding Llamas....ahh...that would be cool. Heh. -Moose

England is 5000 years old, may not be the oldest, but certainly older than America with only a few centuries. Why not replace the Americans with the Inca, much better.

	08-09-2002 18:52									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Blue Moose Heck, what about objecting to Spain? England, France, Germany, and Spain are not only the same area of the world, but those countries have existed during the same time periods. At least the Celts are before this. -Moose edit: grammer

The main reason these countries are in Civ 3 is because they all had, at some point, large Empires that affected the world in different ways.

	08-09-2002 23:48									#26
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quote: Originally posted by rob.derosa England is 5000 years old, may not be the oldest, but certainly older than America with only a few centuries. Why not replace the Americans with the Inca, much better.

Human have been living ther for a long time, but England as a country is far, far younger than that.

	09-09-2002 02:05									#27
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My mistake.

Last edited by rob.derosa on 09-09-2002 at 02:49

	09-09-2002 02:13									#28
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An ethnic heritage or place is not the same as a country. England has not been around for anywhere near that long a time. Britain is the island, England is the country. There is a huge difference.

	10-09-2002 02:41									#29
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the arabs are a good pick. doesn't matter that the middle east gets crowded when you play on a random map btw.

	10-09-2002 02:43									#30
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actually we should have more middle eastern civs, like the Assyrians, Hittites and a couple more i can't remember right now