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Tiberius
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Europe
Jan 2000
time: 06:22
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You know, this is not the best title to start a thread with. Most people will only think "No. Please NO! Another ranter" or "Oh no, Coracle is back!" and won't bother to answer.
Anyway, I know I saw somewhere the exact formula, but until I find it, I'll quote a Firaxis employee speaking about culture flipping. Hope this helps.
quote:
"Culture-Flipping Exposed"
Dana Mahaga, Firaxis
In response to the requests I received earlier this month with regards to how "culture-flipping" works, I sat down with Soren, the lead programmer on Civ III, and he explained which factors influence the probability of a city "flipping" and what the relative weight of each factor was.
The base values used to determine the chance of city flipping are as follows:
A) The number of foreign nationals in the city in question (resisters are counted twice), and
B) The number of the 21-tile city-radius squares of the city in question that fall inside your cultural borders.
These numbers are then further modified by a variety of factors, applied multiplicatively. Here those are, in order of importance:
1) The ratio of distances to the respective capitals of both cities. Basically, if you're closer to your capital than the other city is to its capital, you've got a better chance of getting a flip.
2) The ratio of total culture points of both civs. Obviously, the better your culture is versus the opponent civ, the better your chance of getting a flip are.
3) I didn't even know this, but apparently each city has a "memory" and remembers the total amount of culture generated by any civ who has ever occupied it. This is the 3rd most important factor, because if the "attacking" civ has more historical culture in the city than the "defender", the chance of that city flipping to the attacker are doubled. This is one reason that conquered cities often flip back to their previous owners.
4) Civil Disorder in a city doubles the chance of that city flipping.
5) We Love the King (or whatever) Day in a city halves the chance of that city flipping.
6) Lastly, the number of land-based combat units (e.g., any unit with at least 1 point of offensive and defensive capability) in the city in question are subtracted. This factor is relatively low on the totem pole and this shows you why cities can flip even with huge militias garrisoned in them.
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lucarse
Why? surely there culture would diminish? (saw other cities in civil disorder). |
Culture never diminishes in Civ3. If you raze/conquer some of Egyptian cities, it will only slow down Egypt in the future (culturally speaking). Whatever culture Egypt accumulated before, it will keep it. The disorder has nothing to do with culture (perhaps a side effect of you taking some luxuries out of Egypt, who knows...).
quote:
Originally posted by Lucarse
Is there a rule of thumb for how many units you garrison in a city to stop resistance and gaurd from counter attacks? |
Yes, there is a very good formula around. Let me see... it is here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=51715 (and in many other threads). I am sure you will be able to figure out how many units you approximately need for a given city.
Also, I should point out a strategy often used to avoid losing large garrisons... after taking a city that is likely to flip back, you may choose to station only one or two weak/damaged units (what matters is the number of units, not their strength) and position the rest of your forces outside the city. This greatly increases the chance of flip, but OTOH, makes it easy to retake the city on the very same turn it flips (as it will have only one basic defender after the flip).
Once you lift the culture pressure up by taking the neighbouring enemy cities, too, starving the native population, and whetever else... then you can start treating the conquered city like any other, stationing a normal garrison there.
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Ethelred
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I have and usualy use a simple and effective solution for culture flipping.
One. I don't keep many units in a city. Just one permanent defender and at the beginning injured units being healed. All others stay out. That way I can retake the city if it flips.
Two. quote:
Wipe them out. All of them. |
Three. There is no rule number three.
Your new citizens quickly become happy to be citizens of your expanding and vital empire. Maybe its the corruption. They sure do seem to steal all the money the city should be producing.
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Ethelred
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I am not into razing cities. I only raze occaisionally. A couple of times after a city flipped a second time but I have kind of given that up too. If I did that I would have to build a settler. Since the AI was kind enough to start a city for me I feel I should make use of it.
I gave up on scorched earth as well. I only damage the connections to important strategic resources now. I am bombarding England's last remaining rubber tile every time Liz sends a worker to repair the damage. I took the other one just a few minutes ago. That city is close to London so I have to take London soon or the city may flip. Hard to do in the infantry and artillery period. I am four turns from tanks then two or three turns to get them across the waters. I think I will take the tanks to Japan instead as I may have England under control by then. Liz only has six cities but I have to go through London to get at the rest of them.
I don't make a beeline to the capitol unless its convenient. Early in the game its a good idea because the capitol is often the only city that won't be auto-razed. Later its the one that is most likely to flip back. However the capitol also effects the flipping of other cities so if a distant city is the next most populous taking it can help a lot. Often the capital may have an important wonder and that too counts in any decision I make about when to take it. Right now its just the next in line and otherwise I don't care. All the Wonders Liz has are obsolete.
Most of my tactical decisions are based on facilitating speed of conquest. The faster I take out a civ the less likely I am to have any conquered cities flip. That is one reason for keeping the cities as it effects what roads I can use. Liz has no rails so in this instance I couldn't blitz her even if I had tanks. I am just going to have to grind it out one or two cities every two or three turns as infantry take so bloody long to move across enemy territory. I brought over all my remaining cavalry but they realy need some bombardment as long I have to face infantry. The cavalry are pretty much limited to pillaging at the moment and I don't want to tear up all the roads as I will need them when I take the cities.
Of course if Liz had many units I would take out her road network to slow her defense and that would be a good use for the cavalry. I think she wasted her units trying to get them across the water at me and the remaining American cities on my continent. I got three ex-American cities that way without having to go to war with Lincoln.
She is so short on units that I spent three turns right next to her closest city while I continued to bring over more artillery and infantry so I wouldn't be wasting my first attack. She was unable to muster a single attack. She doesn't seem to have any artillery so my infantry were pretty safe on a hill while they waited for the rest of the invasion force. I was suprised when I got there. I wasn't expecting anything more than riflemen so I had to stall my invasion.
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Ethelred
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quote:
The scourched earth strategy works best IMHO. |
Wait till you have a stack of three move units on land covered with rails. Then you will see the power of the force.... er thats blitz. You can keep taking cities till you run out of units that have remaining moves if you take cities instead of razing them. A whole civ can go on a single turn. There is no flipping in that case.
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Ethelred
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quote:
Originally posted by Kampus majore
So I raze their city to prevend them from getting it back. This way I will weaken them and if I can keep the territory I will send a settler. It can be quickly build, so it works better than keeping their city. |
Early in the game sometimes that is best. There aren't many improvements in the city so you don't capture much. Even a barracks can help a lot though and you don't get to see what is in the city when you are asked to make the choice between governor and raze.
Late in the game the city may even have a courthouse and boy can that help if the city isn't hopelessly corrupt. Right now most cities that I am taking are near worthless except for the gain in territory but even some of them may be able to produce more than one shield with a courthouse and WLTKD. Which surprised me. I didn't think England would be close enough for that with the hordes of corrupt cities I have even on my own continent. Some are still worthless with a police station, a courthouse and WLTKD. Many are only good for increasing my territory and score.
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lucarse
However I don't think i'll be getting out the calculater needed for those formula's. as i said rule of thumb! |
Nah... you need no calculator. Just have a close look at the formula:
Chance of flip = {[(N + S)*C*H*R] - T}/D
N = number of foreign nationals (resistors count as 2).
S = number of 21 city squares under foreign control
C = City Culture factor, 2 if foreign civ has generated more culture in this city, otherwise 1
H = Happiness factor, 2 for disorder, 1/2 for WLTK day, otherwise 1
T= number of garrisoning troops
R= national cultures ratio (Foreign civ total culture divided by your civ total culture)
D= Capitol distance factor (500 to 8000, 2000 average). Lower if they are closer, higher if you are
To make the chance virtually zero, you need:
1 unit per every foreign citizen
2 units per every resisting citizen
1 unit per every tile inside the city radius that is under the enemy control
- twice as much if it is a city where you generated less culture than your enemy
- yet twice as much if the city is in disorder, twice as less if it is celebrating
- proportionally more or less, depending on the ratio between the total culture of your enemy and you.
If you read the formula this way, it is simple...
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06-09-2002 13:23
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