06-09-2002 16:38									#1
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Sorry if this has been posted before, but...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/...,786992,00.html

At the height of the summer, as talk of invading Iraq built in Washington like a dark, billowing storm, the US armed forces staged a rehearsal using over 13,000 troops, countless computers and $250m. Officially, America won and a rogue state was liberated from an evil dictator.
What really happened is quite another story, one that has set alarm bells ringing throughout America's defence establishment and raised questions over the US military's readiness for an Iraqi invasion. In fact, this war game was won by Saddam Hussein, or at least by the retired marine playing the Iraqi dictator's part, Lieutenant General Paul Van Riper.

In the first few days of the exercise, using surprise and unorthodox tactics, the wily 64-year-old Vietnam veteran sank most of the US expeditionary fleet in the Persian Gulf, bringing the US assault to a halt.

What happened next will be familiar to anyone who ever played soldiers in the playground. Faced with an abrupt and embarrassing end to the most expensive and sophisticated military exercise in US history, the Pentagon top brass simply pretended the whole thing had not happened. They ordered their dead troops back to life and "refloated" the sunken fleet. Then they instructed the enemy forces to look the other way as their marines performed amphibious landings. Eventually, Van Riper got so fed up with all this cheating that he refused to play any more. Instead, he sat on the sidelines making abrasive remarks until the three-week war game - grandiosely entitled Millennium Challenge - staggered to a star-spangled conclusion on August 15, with a US "victory". "

Hilarious... The rest of the article is even better.

	06-09-2002 16:46									#2
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It doesn't bode well...

Hopefully the Iraqi's aren't going to be as awkward as this bloke was, and play the game.

	06-09-2002 16:50									#3
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The scary thing is that the US expects Iraq to be just as reliant on technology as they are - there was one point where the bloke was told that his microwave communications had been taken out and he'd have to use satellite mobile phones. He wanted to use motorbike messengers and distribute information via the mosques, but the US said Iraq wouldn't act like that.
Hm.

	06-09-2002 16:53									#5
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In WW2, when wargaming Midway, the Japanese overturned the umpire on how many and which carriers were sunk, and then even the ones the generals and admirals allowed to be sunk initially were refloated later for the rest of the campaign.

	06-09-2002 16:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd In WW2, when wargaming Midway, the Japanese overturned the umpire on how many and which carriers were sunk, and then even the ones the generals and admirals allowed to be sunk initially were refloated later for the rest of the campaign.

Defensive :P Although it is all quite amusing I wonder if the Iraqis are planning to hire this bloke as a tactician...

	06-09-2002 17:10									#7
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Isn't this a bit like cheating at solitaire

	06-09-2002 17:14									#8
	Put an end to popups!

It does seem a bit pointless..

	06-09-2002 17:22									#9
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The restarting I can understand...no point continuing when there's nothing left.
But it's the way he was being forced into a script that makes the whole exercise pointless.

	06-09-2002 17:31									#10
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"Pride goes before a fall." I don't think that anyone should assume that this will be a piece of cake. If he does have the weapons that he is alleged to have then we may be opening up a bucket of worms. Once the lid is off it can be very difficult putting them back in. The cocky, arrogant attitude of some may get a lot of people killed. There is more to warfare than technology.

	06-09-2002 17:44									#11
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i'm just waiting for one of the blind to call all y'all america-hatin' bastids.

	06-09-2002 18:02									#12
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y'all jist a bunch a anti-american bastids..

	06-09-2002 19:14									#13
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thanks, jt.

	06-09-2002 19:41									#14
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hahaha this is what happened to us in army too. 'You were gassed' 'But I had my mask already on..' 'Doesn't matter, you're dead, don't worry, you're back alive soon' .

This was maybe a bit embarrasing, but it was very good for the US army. They now spotted some weak points etc. Happens to the best of us.

	06-09-2002 19:47									#15
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I could see the point if they said " ok you got us-- lets restart"-- then the invaders could learn from their mistakes and try again . . . I thought that was the whole idea of a wargame, practice and learn.

But to blithely ignore the fact that the landing failed and then limit what the defender can do -- what is the point of the exercize ??

	06-09-2002 21:04									#16
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I'd take the Guardian with a grain of salt, but this is pretty funny. I love the idea of a crusty old marine kicking the hell out of the Pentagon's shiny new warplans.

"If it's being done right, anywhere in the world, it's NOT being done by the [U.S.] Army" - Good Morning, Vietnam

-Arrian

	06-09-2002 21:58									#17
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Can you imagine if this were actually predictive? Anybody want to speculate on the political fallout if Bush presides over the worst naval debacle since Pearl Harbor? Priceless indeed; thanks for sharing it.

	06-09-2002 21:59									#18
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It seems like certain wargame planners play their Civ on Chieftain level. And still have to cheat.

	06-09-2002 22:12									#19
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I'm gonna laugh if the US loses.

	06-09-2002 22:22									#20
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If the US really want to attack Iraq, put Van Riper in charge of the operation. He seems to know what is going on. Otherwise, I'm sorry for your guys...

	06-09-2002 23:45									#21
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It's idiocy like this in the top brass that helped cause Vietnam to be such a fiasco. They were so sure that their military model was right, in spite of the evidence pouring in from the field.

	07-09-2002 00:39									#22
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kinda like "you have lost connection to the player named Bush", just after you've built Mikes Chapel in Civ2 MP?

	07-09-2002 01:11									#23
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So our wargames are like Quake. Our soldiers respawn after being fragged.

	07-09-2002 02:31									#24
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Being a friend to men and women who will likely be over there should the time come, I find this frightening, actually.



Let's hope they can correct this...

	07-09-2002 02:56									#25
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Hmmm... Maybe we should try taking Iraq by moving in South from Turkey instead....

	07-09-2002 03:04									#26
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Iraq can't defeat the US... most of their army won't even fight and will give up like in the Gulf war... it will probably be left to the republican guard... which is pretty weak.

	07-09-2002 03:22									#27
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*bang bang bang*
"You're dead. I shot you"
"You missed, and I shot you back"
"I didn't hear you"
*bang bang bang*
"That's cheating! you can't shoot back, you're dead!"
"You missed."
"Did not. I'm the masked avenger, I never miss!"
"yeah, well you didn't even load your gun"
"did so"
"did not"

	07-09-2002 04:18									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Hmmm... Maybe we should try taking Iraq by moving in South from Turkey instead....

That would require the cooperation of Turkey, which is rther reluctant to give it.

	07-09-2002 05:13									#29
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Maybe we shouldn't invade at all.

	07-09-2002 05:21									#30
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Althought that is my prefered option, I'm led to believe that isn't one of our choices.