07-09-2002 00:27									#1
	Pbem Rankings Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Do we need rankings? Simple poll.

	07-09-2002 00:34									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

What is this Pete?

I know your point of view on the subject and I respect it and I guess you know mine but shouldn't you first let Solv know about it or discuss it with him first?

	07-09-2002 04:50									#3
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tell you what: I think when you start playing you like the idea of being ranked, but when you start playing and this guys keep kicking you, then you understand that you like this game, no mater each game you start you never end one

... so a ranking system need a lot of games going on with a fast move to keep you motivated by see your name on the rank, but if you have a game with a turn every week , some day you forgot you are in the rank

My opinion is better to have a history list where each player can have it's own record of win/lose and with who he played, maybe writting what he had learned from those games, so other players can read the way of play of other, learn tips or check what he did wrong to lose.

	07-09-2002 06:04									#4
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quote: I know your point of view on the subject and I respect it and I guess you know mine but shouldn't you first let Solv know about it or discuss it with him first?

The whole idea has been discussed with solver. My intent here is to find out what people really want.

Ber has contributed to that, thanks Ber.

As you know Keygen half the games are not being reported so why?

Do people really want a ranking system? Thus the poll...
Seems like the logical first step.

	07-09-2002 14:00									#5
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While I got to respect you Blackice, it's not quite the first step. In the light of fact that we've been having the system going for almost two years now, I think it's pretty obvious people do want them...

	07-09-2002 15:15									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think the main problem is no one can be bothered to post the x9 ratings. Also, for some people the rankings don't mean much. To me, the ranking mean how good a player is, but it is subjectable to mistakes, like no turn posting. Because some people can't be bothered, it means that the rankings dosen't give the whole picture on CtP PBEM.


Surely it should be the Moderator's job, and not the anchorman's job to post the x9 turn rankings.

What I suggest is that we should have someone who collects all the x9 rankings from the Game threads (as posted by the moderator) and then give them to blackice. Surely this would be more reliable than the current system of collecting rankings, as players seem to come and go.

Last edited by Kalius on 07-09-2002 at 15:39

	07-09-2002 15:40									#7
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Blackice, I think the question isn't "Do people want the rankings" The question is "How do we make it more reliable than it currently is.

	07-09-2002 19:39									#8
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quote: Originally posted by berXpert tell you what: I think when you start playing you like the idea of being ranked, but when you start playing and this guys keep kicking you, then you understand that you like this game, no mater each game you start you never end one ... so a ranking system need a lot of games going on with a fast move to keep you motivated by see your name on the rank, but if you have a game with a turn every week , some day you forgot you are in the rank

I agree completely with ber!
That is exactly the way I felt. It was fun when the turns were coming every few days. Then they started to trickle off and people began fogetting to submit the rankings on the x9 turns altogether.

Edit: cool! This is my "Emperor" post!

	07-09-2002 20:31									#9
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quote: Originally posted by phoenixcager Edit: cool! This is my "Emperor" post!

Welcome to the club PC

Now we are 5 CtP emperors

	07-09-2002 22:58									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Emperor? Well only 6000 post yet to Deity.

Blackice and others: Sorry to be rude. I have voted for waste of time.

You all know - or are able to guess - why.

But I repeat:

Any player, who want their skills to be compared with other players SHOULD BE RATED IN ANY AND EVERY GAMES HE/SHE IS IN.

Of course only rated players counts.

If one game has only one rated player, well there are no changes/reports. If a rated player drops in as replacement, the game starts reporting ratings, ignoring all unrated players.

That is so simple.

What system to be used: I do not care.

	07-09-2002 23:46									#11
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quote: Emperor? Well only 6000 post yet to Deity

It's 7000 .

	08-09-2002 04:15									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: Emperor? Well only 6000 post yet to Deity It's 7000 .

6999

	08-09-2002 04:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by blackice quote: I know your point of view on the subject and I respect it and I guess you know mine but shouldn't you first let Solv know about it or discuss it with him first? The whole idea has been discussed with solver. My intent here is to find out what people really want. Ber has contributed to that, thanks Ber. As you know Keygen half the games are not being reported so why? Do people really want a ranking system? Thus the poll... Seems like the logical first step.

Pete, the current status of the ratings is awful indeed but only because we neglected it and couldn't agree on a widely accepted system and set of rules. I tried to help in both setting some rules and make the discussion work but I got ignored and only witnessed the continuance of flames and non-leading anywhere long arguments so I rested my case

We should had paid more attention and now perhaps we wouldn't discuss it at all

	08-09-2002 06:35									#14
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You too, I agree but even here you have 5 votes is ranking a non issue?

	08-09-2002 12:43									#15
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Ok, 6134 more posts from me. And then Deity.

	08-09-2002 19:46									#16
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Oops...looks like half of this has become a post-count thread

Anyway, since we're on it. Deity looks virtually unreachable from where I'm at. After 2 years I finally have 3000 posts. If I post at the same rate, then it'll take me another 4 1/2 year to reach it...

	08-09-2002 20:06									#17
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Looked the same to me, too, but given that I am here now for two years, and got over 3500 posts last year, and don't quite go down on the amount of posts, I might reach the Deity level in a forseeable future. Not that I care much, but it's fun to be a god .

	09-09-2002 05:43									#18
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bump

	09-09-2002 07:55									#19
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So do you really think so Solver?
I can account for the three votes for sure, be five by the time it's done. Those are a given but what about the rest we now have a tie. A whole 7 people have shown interest.

Let's give it more time but in all honesty as with the other rankings interest seems to be lacking.

	09-09-2002 07:58									#20
	Put an end to popups!

I would like to add Birdy is the only one with the gumption to add his vote and the reason for his negative vote. The other voters who said waste of time never even bothered to say why.

So why is it a waste of time? Add your comments you two.

	09-09-2002 08:44									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Blackice, I did

	09-09-2002 08:52									#22
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I selected the "banana" thing because I am not against it or support it but would like to see the result of the poll without having to click the "view result" link

	09-09-2002 13:38									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

Another major problem with the ratings is: a player can take advantage of another players gratness.

eg: Mr. X is No. 1 in Monkey by miles

He gets nexted, and Mr. Y, a newbie, comes along and replaces him. Mr. Y makes many mistakes, but is still No. 1 because of Mr. X's greatness. Mr. Y isn't the best player in the game, but thats not what the ratings say

Also, can I ask if the ratings are over the entire game, or just the past 10 turns. Because if its the latter, ignore the above. If its the former, then I've spotted a !MAJOR! flaw.

	09-09-2002 20:55									#24
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quote: Originally posted by redbull Another major problem with the ratings is: a player can take advantage of another players gratness. eg: Mr. X is No. 1 in Monkey by miles He gets nexted, and Mr. Y, a newbie, comes along and replaces him. Mr. Y makes many mistakes, but is still No. 1 because of Mr. X's greatness. Mr. Y isn't the best player in the game, but thats not what the ratings say

This has been discussed long ago.

	09-09-2002 20:57									#25
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by redbull Also, can I ask if the ratings are over the entire game, or just the past 10 turns. Because if its the latter, ignore the above. If its the former, then I've spotted a !MAJOR! flaw.

The ratings only rank each 10th turn.

The ladder is full of flaws

What's yours?

	10-09-2002 06:43									#26
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Meh. I think the ratings are rendered moot by the instability of the playerbase. Every game I'm in has had multiple drop-outs, substitutes, and replacements to the point where the individual game results becomes meaningless -- trying to create a composite picture of all the games is going to be impossible.

	10-09-2002 08:43									#27
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I personally don't look too much into rankings, because you can only be the best by winning the most games. You can't really rank people because: A person beating a poor person gets the same points as beating a strong person.

We all know who the good players are, and you don't get worse at CtP.

Thus a ranking is meaningless, due to the nature of PBEM.

	10-09-2002 14:15									#28
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quote: because you can only be the best by winning the most games.

Stands to reason yes, I mean would you prefer "you can only be the best by losing the most games"?

quote: A person beating a poor person gets the same points as beating a strong person.

No not at all.

quote: We all know who the good players are, and you don't get worse at CtP.

But the new players get better, take Gav as an example in 6 months he was beating me no problem.

	10-09-2002 14:18									#29
	Remove this text

It appears a recap of the rules would be in order as requested by Keygen...
I wonder if Solver could find and or post them all?

	10-09-2002 14:45									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by redbull A person beating a poor person gets the same points as beating a strong person.

A better player beating another less capable player gains less points than beating a player of the same level and even more points for beating a better one.