07-09-2002 00:53									#1
	Hawk Resurrection Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

After the DIA resurfaced, I thought it neccessary to resurrect the Hawk Party. As the chairman, I declare a new age for the proud old Hawks. I hope to expand and refine our policies. If you want to join, or announce that you are still active, please say in this thread. We have lost several good members, but with your help, we can replace these and move on. Who will stand with me against the might of the DIA?

Active Members:

-jdd2007
-UnOrthOdox
-Kingof the Apes
-UberKruX
-Duddha
-GoodFella
-Luk
-=OttomusCeasar=
-Meshelic
-ruby_maser


Inactive Members

-furbster
-LordAzreal
-Il Duce
-joost1110
-iain
-IceElement
-EmperorMagnus

Our Great MANIFESTO:

Our mission is to insure that our nation will be in a position to allow AS MANY victory types by end game as possble. This requires strong, aggressive military action, especially early, to ensure ourselves a position where Domination and Conquest are possible. Building cultural improvements and Wonders will be done in the times where we are either at peace, or our military is deemed adequate to it's task. Once we have built our nation, we should rotate military with cultural building to assure our dominance in ALL areas.

We believe science is very important and should focus on what is most needed at the time, be it a wonder tech, or a military advance. Trading tech should preferrably be done in return for other tech or needed resources. Trading away tech for cash should only be done when it is either a dire need, or would cripple a rival's economy, thereby giving us a further lead.

We promote and advocate wars that can be won, be they to gain territory, resources, or simply to slow an opponent or deny resources. We DO NOT advocate any prolonged war that will strangle our economy and resources. Before declaring war, our nation should have a clear view of the objectives already in place. There are many civ's out there who will challenge our dominance, careful planning and adaptation will be required for the military to succeed. We support capturing cities when possible and razing when neccessary.

We welcome opposing views and parties, as healthy competition leads to greater strength. Debate and votes are essential to our society, and we will leave major decisions on what is best to the people, as they are the true strength of Apolytonia. While we may oppose others views, we realize that the enemy lies without, and not within, and will work to achieve a cooperation between parties to meet the greater good. We believe in the democratic process and will actively work to ensure the people's will is carried out.

*Glory to Country through Strength and Honor!*

.............................................................Join the Hawks...........................................................

Last edited by jdd2007 on 05-10-2002 at 18:38

	07-09-2002 01:46									#2
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Our party secratary is still active.

I was personally hoping that the DIA would let the parties die. After some private discussions with their leader at this time, however, that appears to no longer remain an option. When I get beck from my business trip, I will look this party over, guage it's members, and help choose a course of action.

Until then, fellow Hawks.

	07-09-2002 03:42									#3
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Our party secratary is still active.

good! its encouraging to see that you are still with us.

quote: I was personally hoping that the DIA would let the parties die.

me too

quote: After some private discussions with their leader at this time, however, that appears to no longer remain an option.

too bad

quote: When I get beck from my business trip, I will look this party over, guage it's members, and help choose a course of action.

until then

	07-09-2002 03:53									#4
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We'll I'm not a member of any party,(actually i'm a member of the "what ever will help us" party) but this is my observation. The persia attack idea really shook up the remainer of the dia.
Aggie

	07-09-2002 09:08									#5
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I left for a while, but now I'm back!

I was originally part of the Imperialists, what happened to them and the UFC?

	07-09-2002 09:59									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Kingof the Apes I left for a while, but now I'm back! I was originally part of the Imperialists, what happened to them and the UFC?

trip "left", and the Imperialists disbanded. the DIA didnt disband, so now the hawks are renewing and stuff.

yay hawks!

	07-09-2002 21:55									#7
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Well, I'll join the Hawks then.

Gotta change my sig...

	08-09-2002 00:35									#8
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I'm still with the Hawk party. And I'm running for City Planner if any of you want to vote for me. I don't expect anyone to as I'm running on a ARE ideological basis, but that's fine as my campaign is designed more to raise questions and build support for forced assimilation and other ARE idealogies. So basiclly, my campaign is a joke.

The DIA seems to be organizing stances. We don't want them to take over the policy discussion.

	08-09-2002 01:30									#9
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The DIA seems to be making a charter. Should we make one too?

	08-09-2002 05:35									#10
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we have our manifesto, Duddha, but i can never find it.

	08-09-2002 06:01									#11
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Hawks, do you have a problem with me 'endorsing' independents running in elections without a hawk. trickey and togas come to mind.

	08-09-2002 10:47									#12
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I'm still in, though I haven't been active lately.

	08-09-2002 10:57									#13
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I think we should support independents that have policies close enough to our own, like Trickey, Togas, and Will 5001.

	08-09-2002 17:27									#14
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The manifesto is in the Gazette I. Find that via the Gazette archives, which is linked to in the directory.

	08-09-2002 21:31									#15
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Good to see you around, GF.

Duddha, the three independents you mentioned are good candidates, and we should give them an official *Hawk Seal Of Approval* Unless one of us runs against them, of course.

thanks UnOrthO, added the Manifesto, with a few minor changes.

	09-09-2002 01:02									#16
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I'm glad to see both parties are restructuring. As I stated elsewhere, I think they're an essential part to foster the debate about the "big picture" (unlike other places of debate which are about short- and middle term policy)

	15-09-2002 00:55									#17
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Thre I must disagree with you, Spiffor.

We are not playing the game as we would on our own. Long term goals such as "We want to obtain cultural Victory" will only alienate those who do not wish that particular victory.

You within the DIA seem to be focusing so much n the GAME that you are missing what is truly happening around here. We are more than playing the game. We have a true government, and a population. We have transended the dynamics of the game and should focus on the probems at hand. Let the peoples decisions direct which path we ultimately lead to. Use your party to lobby for this or that, but basing it on such things as a specific victory option will deny you a great opportunity for Role Playing. Base it instead on a DESIRE for whatever thing at the time.

For instance:

War on Persia for breaking the ROP is allot mor fu to promote than War on Persia to step towards domination.

Similarly build coleseums so that we have adequet facilities for the Jungle Ball teams is allot more fun than to say do it for culture...

	16-09-2002 19:41									#18
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I wanna be still member of the party

	16-09-2002 20:56									#19
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I wish to join.

Blood makes the bananas grow.........

	16-09-2002 21:47									#20
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Thre I must disagree with you, Spiffor. We are not playing the game as we would on our own. Long term goals such as "We want to obtain cultural Victory" will only alienate those who do not wish that particular victory. You within the DIA seem to be focusing so much n the GAME that you are missing what is truly happening around here. We are more than playing the game. We have a true government, and a population. We have transended the dynamics of the game and should focus on the probems at hand. Let the peoples decisions direct which path we ultimately lead to. Use your party to lobby for this or that, but basing it on such things as a specific victory option will deny you a great opportunity for Role Playing. Base it instead on a DESIRE for whatever thing at the time. For instance: War on Persia for breaking the ROP is allot mor fu to promote than War on Persia to step towards domination. Similarly build coleseums so that we have adequet facilities for the Jungle Ball teams is allot more fun than to say do it for culture...

UnOrthOdOx is right ; and I think that there is room for politics in a demogame provided we apply it to the democracy part and not to the way the game as such is played. As an exemple, the intensity of role playing we want could be an ideological issue, at the level of the demogame, with parties fighting for more and others fighting for less. And these parties could be opposed by ONE party negating the role playing, with a left wing of builders and a right wing of warmongers.

Just a though.

	16-09-2002 21:59									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Luk I wanna be still member of the party

excellent!

quote: I wish to join. Blood makes the bananas grow.........

american and french varieties are especially good fertilizers, though the persian kind can damage the soil in the long run

	16-09-2002 22:56									#22
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Is everyone in the party in favor of marching to the Persian sea and capturing the Pyramids?

	16-09-2002 23:05									#23
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Yes, the Pyramids will only aid us in the long run. Those, coupled with Sun Tzu will ensure a strong growth, and strong military.

Plus they will aid you in your ARE objectives. We must take action in the new cities should they have a large Persian presence, however. We need settlers to colonize Uber Island, anyway...And with cash now a viable rushing method...

Decreased Persian presence...settlers for the Island...what is the downside?

	16-09-2002 23:17									#24
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quote: Decreased Persian presence...settlers for the Island...what is the downside?

yes!

We must never let the foreign blood reach 15% again! I noticed we took one of our settlers from Port Rouge. Seemed like a proper way of dealing with those baby eaters.

	16-09-2002 23:24									#25
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Nay, my fellow Hawks. Persian settlers on Uber? You wound found cities on that island with 100% Persian citizenship?

The Persian racial traits are good for few tasks, fortuanately those tasks include jungle-chopping, road building, and ore mining.

	16-09-2002 23:26									#26
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i was just playing red alert 2!

	16-09-2002 23:37									#27
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quote: Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar= Nay, my fellow Hawks. Persian settlers on Uber? You wound found cities on that island with 100% Persian citizenship? The Persian racial traits are good for few tasks, fortuanately those tasks include jungle-chopping, road building, and ore mining.

Aha!!! You have not yet discovered our method of speeding conversion to OUR nationality. The game PREVENTS you from PRODUCING a foreign nationality in your settlers and workers. So, when you create one from a Foreign national city, it reduces their population, but also CHANGES the 2 used in the settler to YOUR nationality. They can then be joined back into the city or used, but they will be Apolytonians! We are simply speeding the process along. That's all. Why wait thousands of years to culturally assimilate the masses into our society? Having them slave unproductively under the whips and chains as the DIA would have us do. No, I say give them the opportunity to join our cause! Remember, TRUE victory lies not in the destruction of the enemy, but in making them ADMIT they were wrong to ever THINK of opposing you in the first place. Holding them in slavery, able to maintain their nationality will only give their government reason to hate us, and a desire to free it's people. Now, should their government watch it's citizens freely give up their nationality to join our cause, it will only serve to demoralize the remaining Persians, and speed their own realization that NO ONE shall oppose us.

Now, If I could just confirm that it would always take the citizens from right to left, the ARE would have a blissfully peaceful method of their...cleansing...

	17-09-2002 02:41									#28
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quote: We are simply speeding the process along. That's all. Why wait thousands of years to culturally assimilate the masses into our society? Having them slave unproductively under the whips and chains as the DIA would have us do.

We would never support unproductive slavery. No, it's much more like long-term indentured servitude.

	17-09-2002 02:52									#29
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Have you learned nothing from the US and our backlash of Political Correctness?

There should NEVER be slaves!




Refer to them as "liberty challenged".
(God bless America)

	17-09-2002 16:51									#30
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Have you learned nothing from the US and our backlash of Political Correctness? There should NEVER be slaves! Refer to them as "liberty challenged". (God bless America)

hi ,

indeed , let them join our cities , so that they can add to our great civilization , .......

and become our people after time , ....

have a nice day