07-09-2002 08:10									#1
	f-15 golden era Full PM-box? Change here!

im playing as the americans, and i havent had my golden era yet.

im aiming for a diplomacy win, mostly because its one of the only victories i have yet to achieve (i go crazy militarily too often).

I want to build the UN, but threw some careful spying, i know Persia will beat me by 2 turns or so to building it.

now... i have some F-15's, but i dont know exactly how to triger a golden age. What is to my advantage are some Iroquois to the north that are a backwards people that no one likes (they attacked me previously, with which i responded by signing MPP's with ALL the nations of the world. everyone is polite or better with me, while they are despized)

so, i see 2 options
1: build tuns of units to disband for shields, trying to make up that turn difference
2: trigger my golden age

but the question is, HOW do i trigger a golden age with F-15's? will succesful bombing do it, or do i need to shoot something down?

other tips on how to make up the time will be helpful. planting a spy for sabotage isnt an option.

	07-09-2002 08:16									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

1) You CANNOT do a rush-job on any wonder of the world in Civ3 like you could in Civ2.
2) I have no idea

Other: My only suggestion is to use Gramphos' Civ3MultiTool v95whatever-its-at-now. Use the Savegame modifyer to monkey with the offending AI's city that's building the United Nations. Yes, this consitutes blatant cheating, so do so only if you're comfortable with cheating from time-to-time against AI players.

	07-09-2002 08:18									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

CHEATING IS NOT AN OPTION

I know i cant rush it. but a golden age WILL increase my shield count. what i want to know is.

What is the Requirement for an F-15 to produce a golden age?

	07-09-2002 08:35									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

*update*
im 2 turns away from completion.
im starving Washington to death(turning all irrigated tiles into mined tiles, have lost 7 taxmen)... but it appears i have a one turn lead on Persia.

and Persia just declared war on the Zulu (they are the two biggest powers of the game, with me tailing just behind).
this could work to my advantage....

	07-09-2002 08:47									#5
	Got spare money?

HAHAAH!
i built it! Persia and i were going to finish on the same turn, but i suppose i got the doors open first.

And now, all of the big nations are fighting each other on the other continent.

seems good ole USA is the only nation everyone loves. Now just to get my diplomacy win...

	07-09-2002 08:49									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I "think" the F-15 would have to destroy another aircraft.

	07-09-2002 08:52									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

well, i won, without having to do any extra gift giving.

had the elections right away, and i defeated Xerxes by a vote of 4-3. the Iroquois abstained.

never had to use the F-15's on the Iroquois. wouldnt have done much good, they were backwards and didnt even know flight yet.

I only went to war once, and that was out of self defense.
and signing MPP's ensured id win the diplo game no matter what. Well, that and constantly sharing techs and anything else i had... the entire game (Persia was always three techs ahead of me, i spent EVERYTHING to get fusion to start the UN)

	07-09-2002 09:37									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ninot *update* im 2 turns away from completion. im starving Washington to death(turning all irrigated tiles into mined tiles, have lost 7 taxmen)... but it appears i have a one turn lead on Persia.

What a waste. Not the loss of the taxmen. That is good. The food wasted on them prior to that.

If you have an important production city you should ONLY have as much irrigation as you absolutely must to work all the hill and mountains tiles. To get that the maximum production out of a city the pop should be topped out at 20. The only way I ever have more is if the city has a lot food bonuses or flood plains and occasionally a city will be helped by some entertainers to keep it in WLTKD to lower corruption. The last is not needed for core cities so I see no reason for doing so in a city that is strong enough for wonder building.

My bet is that you have automated your workers. That would also explain the difficulty you are having geting a win. Completly automated workers IRITATE to many grassland tiles. All those extra people are only good for getting a higher score and if you lose who cares what score you got.

	07-09-2002 09:41									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Ninot well, i won, without having to do any extra gift giving.

Congradulations.

I don't have any diplomatic wins. One loss that way. I don't want to win that way. I like space race or just getting it done fast by domination.

I really like the Space Race video. Maybe if the other victories had a video I would be a bit more willing to go for them.

	07-09-2002 10:20									#10
	Suffering from ads?

well, im playing games and seeing how they go, but every time i win by a certain kind of victory, i take that one out of the rules for the next game

now that i kicked off diplomacy, im going to be playing a game with only conquest and winning at 2050 by score.

	07-09-2002 10:59									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think the main problem in conquest games is hunting down the last city on islands or that were just created by a settler.

The other problem is that unless you DO limit the uncheck the domination victory you are likely to win accidently that way first. Half my domination victories have taken place while I working on or about to start working on the Space Ship.

Well that and the actual difficulty of getting a good enough start to conquer everyone. That depends on the level you are playing. I have found that warmongering is easier than being a builder. Sure has been easier on Monarch. I think it will be easier on Emperor as well.

Though the first game I played on Emperor, that was prior to the 1.29f patch, I would have lost as a warmonger as well. Its really hard to do well on a island just big enough for 10 cities and mostly plains on top of it. I was way behind when I got off that bloody island and there simply was no place I could even land and execute an invasion. I lost when Ghandi launched. I sabotaged his Space Ship once but failed to get it again.

	07-09-2002 11:04									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

my BEST game so far...

i won a culture victory with Rome

a few key culture cities... and a huge army to make sure no one kept pace.
Truly, it was a war mongering game where culture got out of hand.

btw, i made an error before. i HAVE won a conquest victory (as persia)... i havent won by domination. (i could have, but i figured whiping out a few island cities was easier than waiting 10 turns for my culture borders to take over the continent.

	07-09-2002 12:34									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

To answer your initial question regarding the GA trigger for the Americans. Your F-15 must shoot down an enemy aircraft. Either being on an air-superiority mission, successfully intercepting an enemy bomber, or being on a bombing mission, successfully fending off an interception by an enemy fighter.

	07-09-2002 14:13									#14
	Put an end to popups!

To answer the original question, I don't think F-15s (or artillery, for that matter) can generate a Golden Age. I remember someone asking Firaxis at E3 how the Koreans could generate a Golden Age - their UU is an artillery piece. Firaxis replied "The same way the Americans do - by building Wonders". I don't think this is satisfactory - the Americans' Golden Age should come late in the game, not when they build the Pyramids!

	07-09-2002 14:15									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think vondrack has it right.

	07-09-2002 14:30									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Perhaps Americans are supposed to get a Golden Age by voting for the various available George Bushes.

Maybe thats Lead Age I am thinking of.

	07-09-2002 21:36									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

i play america most of the time ( commercial and expansionist in my game) and can trigger a golden age every time.
if nobody will attack me with aircraft i load up a carrier or 2 with f-15 and go looking for an advanced civ to pick a fight.
i have never gone a whole game as america without triggering a golden age, but the korean civ wont be as easy

	07-09-2002 22:58									#18
	Remove this text

i've never actualy seen the screen that tells you the votes and crap, could sombody post one please?

	08-09-2002 01:37									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

Vondrack has it right. That F-15 has to shoot down an enemy aircraft. In my last game I won with the space ship as America during my golden age. So that late golden age is helpful and realistic. But trying to trigger it can be a pain. I attacked the Iroqs who only had 5 bombers and after taking 2 of their cities they only had 3 left. Fortunately, they did try a bombing run the next turn and my Eagles intercepted them. I guess its appropriate as much of the mystique of US military power comes from US air power, especially air to air capability.

	08-09-2002 01:39									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Perhaps Americans are supposed to get a Golden Age by voting for the various available George Bushes.

No, that starts a dark age.

	08-09-2002 01:44									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

well, i suppose if you have F-15's, and your opponents dont have flight, you dont need the golden age that badly

	08-09-2002 02:05									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Carver No, that starts a dark age.

Ninot just changed his avatar. It was Dubya yesterday. I made that remark especially for him and now he has made it irrelevant.

	08-09-2002 04:00									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Ninot just changed his avatar. It was Dubya yesterday. I made that remark especially for him and now he has made it irrelevant.

sorry, i was tired of Dub-yah, and felt this one more appropriate for the week.

	08-09-2002 04:24									#24
	Tired of ads?

why?

	08-09-2002 21:22									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by HazieDaVampire why?

Check your calendar.

	09-09-2002 01:42									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

I got a late Golden Age as the Americans by using a Great Leader to build the Hoover Dam. My Expansionist wonder was Magellan's Voyage, also constructed by a GL if I recall correctly.

I haven't finished the game yet. My monitor died, and I'm currently using an old one; I want to get a new one so I can see the Modern Age graphics and such in all their glory. It's by far the farthest I have played in any game; I haven't won one yet (because the early game is "more fun"). Which leads me to some questions.

When you win the game, does it let you go on and win the other victories as well? Is that the case for all of the victories, or just some of them? Will I still see the movie for the Space Race if I win another victory first? If you go on playing, can the AI win too? And if you lose by something other than conquest, do you have the option of continuing then as well? etc.

By the way, it should be easy for me to meet several victory conditions before anyone else, due to the increased research capacity granted by my GA and the production boost granted by the Hoover Dam. My empire is huge (Communist government, playing on Huge map). I have most of the important wonders and should capture two more from the Aztecs soon enough. I'm the tech leader and have all available technologies, and am in the late Industrial Age.

	09-09-2002 01:59									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

John,

If you win via the SS launch, you will see the movie plus all the usual end-game stuff and then get a possibility to either quit playing or continue. However, you can't achieve any more victories - the game goes into sort of a sandbox mode, if you choose to continue. No more scoring, no more victories, no way to lose... just playing until you feel like having enough... I have always felt like having enough at the very moment my spaceship launched...

EDIT: the same goes for other victory types. You go through the regular end-game sequence and are then offered the choice to either quit or continue playing. But you can't win the game twice... no SS movie, if you win with conquest/culture/diplo/domination first.

Last edited by vondrack on 09-09-2002 at 02:11

	09-09-2002 03:02									#28
	Increase Your PM Length

Too bad. I would like to be able to have multiple victories. It could certainly make the game more interesting, especially for multiplayer: "How many of these 6 objectives can you achieve before anyone else?"

	09-09-2002 14:49									#29
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by reefer addict i play america most of the time ( commercial and expansionist in my game) and can trigger a golden age every time. if nobody will attack me with aircraft i load up a carrier or 2 with f-15 and go looking for an advanced civ to pick a fight.

does this explain post-war US foreign policy? They've been trying to trigger a golden age?

	11-09-2002 03:42									#30
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Some cheating for everyone who got curious on that spacerace-movie put doesn't want to finsih the game first:
go to civ3dir\art\movies , rename intro.bik to something else and race.bik to intro.bik
Start the game and enjoy.
Don't forget to undo these changes afterwards!

edit:
There is also a video security_briefing.bik you can view the same way (don't know if this one shows up during the game).