07-09-2002 17:15									#1
	A new wonder they should have had: The Great Firewall Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

The Great Firewall:

Requires: Computers
The internet must have been built by someone

Effect: Civilization is immune to all spy operations except sabotage production. This Civilization's knowledge of technologies does not affect the price of techs for others civs. Lastly, this civilization is immune to culture flipping.

Historical Background: China currently has a huge firewall for its country, to prevent their citizens from viewing material that the government disapproves of. Sections of the web effectively do not exist if you are in China..

	07-09-2002 21:09									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

That sounds like a pretty useful wonder...

P.S. Actually, according to my surfing experiences, all sections of the web (even Falun Gong and Free Tibet sites) exist in China if you know how to use the "cache" function in Google. Too bad they blocked Google just a couple days ago...

	07-09-2002 21:44									#4
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I'm lucky that I'm in Toronto right now. My cousin, who lives in Beijing, is going nuts about not being able to use Google. He spends all of his free time playing civ3 now instead.

So the "Great Firewall" as a wonder has gotta have some side effect. Like one less happy citizen per city or something. To balance it out you can add some other nice effect to it.

	07-09-2002 21:58									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The one who builds the Great Firewall should lose some science/gold too.

	07-09-2002 22:30									#6
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Well I don't see China losing that much science/gold because people can't visit CNN. Any science/gold lost should be factored into side effects of the governmental system, not the wonder.

So the Great Firewall would:
- cause one happy citizen in each >12 city to become content, two in each >24 city
- more immunity to subversive espionage
- faster assimilation of foreign citizens
- no chance of culture flipping

	08-09-2002 01:08									#7
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I think this idea is cool in the general sense, but way too powerful. That's like on the scale equal to Leonardo's Workshop from civ2.

	08-09-2002 02:31									#8
	Re: A new wonder they should have had: The Great Firewall Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Blue Moose The Great Firewall: Requires: Computers The internet must have been built by someone Effect: Civilization is immune to all spy operations except sabotage production. This Civilization's knowledge of technologies does not affect the price of techs for others civs. Lastly, this civilization is immune to culture flipping. Historical Background: China currently has a huge firewall for its country, to prevent their citizens from viewing material that the government disapproves of. Sections of the web effectively do not exist if you are in China..

WAY too powerful. Plus, do you mean culture flipping as in your cities cant flip to someone else, or someone elses cities cant flip to you....or both?

Also, didnt china release its firewall on many sites.....I remember reading that somewhere.

	08-09-2002 03:07									#9
	Got spare money?

Well, I've never found much use for the spying abilities...they seem really expensive, so it didn't seem like spy immunity was enough.

As for culture flipping, I meant it would make your people immune to being flipped, but I guess it should probably be a double-edged sword: as far as your civ is concerned, there is no such thing as culture flipping.

	08-09-2002 03:48									#10
	Remove this text

Tassadar5000: yeah, there was a release on many sites some time back, but just a couple of days back, there was an inexplicable banning of Google and Altavista.

As for the wonder, we can tune it even more...

1) Makes one happy citizen content in all cities >8, two in >16, three in >24
2) +50% chance of thwarting spy operations
3) +50% speed in assimilation foreigners
4) half the chance of losing a city to flipping

	08-09-2002 17:33									#11
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hi ,

since we can have up to 256 wonders , .....

no problem , ....

have a nice day

	08-09-2002 20:38									#12
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This should be a Small Wonder. Is too general and every country is capable to create something like this.

	08-09-2002 20:56									#13
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Uses of the Great Firewall:

Security? No.
Surveilance? No.
Censorship? Yes.

The thing is not unique to China. There's similar blocking policies in Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and, I think also Cuba. The results are people from those countries sometimes dont even know about the more recent Celphone technologies or satellite TV.


No added security or espinage capabilities, just, one content citizen (as he fails to know what's on the news about you) and 10% less trade. Congrats fellas.

Gaaaawwwd, how usefull, you want one?

	08-09-2002 21:00									#14
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Echelon Project:

Security? No.
Surveilance? Yes.
Censorship? No.

Unique to the US, everone who knows about it dislikes it. 10% more chance of enemy espionage failure, one unhappy citizen each city. For governmental intrussion of people's privacy or whatever.

	12-09-2002 20:43									#15
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good one

how about the addition "echelon project":
you can steal techs for a lot cheaper price (or free) from allies.

and then add a spying mission: "expose echelon project"

	12-09-2002 20:50									#16
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf good one how about the addition "echelon project": you can steal techs for a lot cheaper price (or free) from allies. and then add a spying mission: "expose echelon project"

Nice idea!

	13-09-2002 00:36									#17
	Put an end to popups!

This thread is just g-o-o-d! I like the idea, but unfortunately it's too late... I guess that's what the new editor is for?

	14-09-2002 08:43									#18
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I wouldn't say it's to late yet,there's always post-PTW patches

	14-09-2002 14:57									#19
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Of course, what was I thinking of!

	15-09-2002 08:13									#20
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quote: Originally posted by XOR The thing is not unique to China. There's similar blocking policies in Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and, I think also Cuba. The results are people from those countries sometimes dont even know about the more recent Celphone technologies or satellite TV. No added security or espinage capabilities, just, one content citizen (as he fails to know what's on the news about you) and 10% less trade. Congrats fellas. Gaaaawwwd, how usefull, you want one?

Good idea.
But forget the trade part. China gets a lot of trade from foreign investment nowadays, and that's got nothing to with any Great Firewall.

one nitpick though - China does have satellite dishes. too much of them, in fact, since remote areas have to depend on them.

	16-09-2002 19:18									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by XOR Echelon Project: Security? No. Surveilance? Yes. Censorship? No. Unique to the US, everone who knows about it dislikes it. 10% more chance of enemy espionage failure, one unhappy citizen each city. For governmental intrussion of people's privacy or whatever.

hi ,

, this wonder should also count for the uk , canada , austaralia and new zealand , ......

have a nice day