07-09-2002 22:37									#1
	Formalizing the regions, along with the role of the "deputies". Enter the AD-FREE zone

OK. I have been promising this for a while, and now that it appears the system is up and running fairly smooth, I am now posting my ideas regarding the regions, how they are run, etc.

I am setting this up as a poll, with 4 options:

Yes, I like the way you describe it, and agree it should be a part of our code of laws.

No, this sucks. I think regions are a bad idea. Don't need them, don't want them.

Not this way. I see how regions can be usefull, but this needs to be worked out better. I will post my ideas below.

Abstain. I don't care about this issue. All I wanted is to see how the poll is turning out. By clicking here, I agree that my vote will not count for or against this.


The yes option needs to have more votes than the two no options combined to pass. It will then be considered a part of the code of laws.

------------------------------------------------

So, just what are we voting on?

Regions: A region is an area, roughly based upon the geography of the land, and composed of several cities. The City Planner assignes various cities into regions. Once assigned, a city can only change regions by a vote of the people. (A good example of this is the city Timeline. By looking at the maps, it would probably best be in region 1, Mingapulco, and not region 2, Pina Colada. When I assigned the regions innitially, I was more conserned with balance with current production, figuring the war with france would now be over and that we would have several American cities being added to Pina Colada. Oops.)

Regional Administrators: A person who volunteers to help the City Planner may be assigned by the City Planner to Administer a region. One such person may, at the will of the City Planner, act as an official deputy in case the City Planner is not available and a decision needs to be made. The City Planner must state publicly that So and So is my deputy. The volunteer can name his position (i.e. Viceroy of Pina Colada Provence). If this is a new regoin, the person can solicit from the public for a name of the region. These people help the City Planner in organizing the cities within their area, particularly in regards to production and optimal worker placement. However, their most important duty is to help in role playing. The City Planner may have as many or as few assistants as volunteer and as the City Planner may like. If the number of volunteers exceeds the number of regions, the City Planner may assign people to act as "Mayor" or other such appropriate title to a specific city. The City Planner may elect to not use any assistants at his discretion.

The City Planner is the elected position, and as such has full and final authority over any and all orders which fall under his purview. Therefor, any assistants should PM, Email, or other appropriate means, communicate their ideas and requests to the City Planner with sufficient time for the City Planner to compile them into a single post for the President/Vice President to use when playing the game (this assumes the President or VP have objections to multiple posts, which may or may not have been reviewed by the elected official). Volunteers should realize that as the City Planner has the responsibility, he may change and overide any such requests made to him. Also, the City Planner reserves the rights to remove a volunteer from this semi-official position at whim. The volunteer has whatever authority the City Planner deligates into the position. I would advise future City Planners to have all region orders go thru them prior to posting as they are the one responsible.

	07-09-2002 22:39									#2
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Oops, forgot to note, expires in 5 days.

	07-09-2002 22:48									#3
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It's a good plan .

I've no objections to what's up there. It's pretty close to what we have now, which works, and also gives lots of power to the City Planner to set things up the way he/she wants.

-- adaMada

	08-09-2002 02:17									#4
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Good plan, GodKing. I support it. Could you post a list of the regions with the cities of each one? I need this info to prepare the correspondent maps.
Thanks in advance.

	08-09-2002 02:23									#5
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Aro, check the Term Three Government/Directory Thread, it's got lists of cities in each region in the City Planning section.

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...&threadid=59225

-- adaMada

	08-09-2002 02:36									#6
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quote: City Planner: GodKing Deputies: OPD , jdjdjd , Rendelnep OPD will be managing region #1, which will include the following cities: Name the Region (suggestions) Termina Apolyton Tassagrad BHQ chartres (occupied) orleans (occupied) rheims (occupied)

When did the French take back Port Rouge (Orleans)?

Oh, and I'd be available as a Regional Deputy for Mingapulco if OPD wins the presidency, or the Island, or New Persia......................

	08-09-2002 02:37									#7
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sounds good. but one question, i dunno if you ansered it or not. how or the depurty's selected, i am asuming by normal election.

	08-09-2002 02:38									#8
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Trickey: Deputies are, by nature, appointed. The point of this ammendment is to give hte CP the maximum flexability in how he runs his office.

GF: I think that list may be a bit out of date re: the occupied entries.

-- adaMada

	08-09-2002 02:40									#9
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By the way, I suggest that instead of regions, we adopt the term: Provinces.

The governor of a province will be 'The Provincial Governor'.

If the government wills it, I too shall put forward my name for a post somewhere as a Provincial Governor.

	08-09-2002 03:07									#10
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. Formalizing it is a waste of time and creates unnecesary rigidity.

	08-09-2002 04:32									#11
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The List is a little out of date. Sorry. I will talk to unortho when he returns to see if he intends on keeping up the directory. If so, I will see if we can update it.

The deputies are appointed. If they were elected, two people with radical differences could be causing friction instead of working together.

I was leaving the term region in as it is fairly generic. If, for example, the person wanted to be called "Governor", it might be the "state of mingapulco", however, if someone wanted to use "Prince" then it would be the "Principality of Mingapulco". However it works out, I wanted it to be generic for roll play so that it isn't terribly rigid and formalized.

civman2k; I think the people needed to decide if they want the regions, provinces, states, whatever. I tried to make this as flexible as possible, while still allowing the elected official to have responsibility and the power to do the job. However, if the people feel that they do not like this, then let it go away. That is why I am trying to formalize this. When you read it, it states that the CP can either use none, some or all of it at their discretion. How is that being too rigid?

	08-09-2002 05:21									#12
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Godking, the regions are one of the best ideas I've ever seen in the C3DG, I love it. And I think as Apolyton grows it will take on more and more important... I'm all for it, especially since you outlined that all deputies report to the City Planner (thus avoiding too much decentralization!)... it's awesome. Besides, one of my favorite parts of the statistics is the regional comparisons!

	08-09-2002 10:35									#13
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quote: Originally posted by adaMada Aro, check the Term Three Government/Directory Thread, it's got lists of cities in each region in the City Planning section. http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...&threadid=59225 -- adaMada

Thanks, adaMada.

	08-09-2002 19:47									#14
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Here's my Proposal...

1) That the regions that are to be divided as 'provinces' be managed by a 'provincial governor', who makes the lesser decisions, but answers to the President and government leaders.

2) That the provincial governor must not simply seek to enhance culture in the region through his constructions and improvements, but also attempt to make the region more profitable to the nation as a whole.

3) That the provincial governor must raise a standing army of at least four units to protect the borders of his province from invasion, or to lend assistance in case of further imperial expansion.

4) That the provinces be assigned titles thus:
Apolytonian heartland = The Province of Magnus Apolytonia
Apolytonian jungle area = The Province of Apolytonia Minor
American colonies = The Province of Apolytonia Americanus
French colonies = The Province of Gaul
Persian colonies = The Province of Asia
Northern areas (near Germany) = The Province of Germania

Any more proposals to be added on? Is this satisfactory?

	08-09-2002 20:02									#15
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History Guy, I really really really like your proposal b/c it's very aesthetically pleasing (role playing wise) and yet functional as well. But since it's already been decided what most of the region names are I think everyone would be unwilling to rename and rearrange the provinces now...

	08-09-2002 20:07									#16
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History Guy,

The beauty of GodKing's proposal is that it's very flexiable. If you are elected City Planner, and you want to play with those rules (such as each gov. must rase a standing army and calling them 'provincial governor') then you can. On the other hand, If I'm elected City Planner, and I want to do everything myself, I can do that too. (Just an example -- I quite like the Govs system, and have no desire to be City Planner ). This way, things are totally flexable -- a city planner can have one person take on one provence and do the rest himself, assign them all out as GodKing as done, or even assign all but one and do that one himself. Flexability . .

-- adaMada

	08-09-2002 20:12									#17
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Well, perhaps, but I think that a standing army is necessary, and if overlooked could prove disastrous in years to come.

	08-09-2002 20:17									#18
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Yes, I agree that NOT formalizing allows more flexibility. And I propose we let the city planner determine the regions/names if they want to name the regions are delegate their naming to the regional administrators so be it. (History Guy may run for city planner just to name all the regions. )

This versitility should be quite useful as we get closer to the Modern Age and more and more cities require more decisions.

	08-09-2002 20:19									#19
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy Well, perhaps, but I think that a standing army is necessary, and if overlooked could prove disastrous in years to come.

Oh, I agree, and I think that the standing army's a very good idea (one I wish I'd thought of myself, in fact).

But this amendment is designed to give power, not take it away. If you mandate a standing army, then the CP will not be able to adapt. For instance, we probably won't have much military on Uber Isle till it's colonized, at which point we'll start working on the Military side of things.

Having said that, I do recommend that each CP does use the Standing Army that History Guy proposed, and I promise to bug the next CP to try to have it in affect in at least most of our provinces by the end of next term .

-- adaMada

	08-09-2002 20:22									#20
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Mr. Farb, you bring up something that seems to me a very attractive idea...city planner, eh? Hah hah hah...

Vice-Minister, thank you indeed. I think that this standing army is necessary. We wouldn't want to be caught with a group of swordsmen breaking into our provinces in a surprise attack when all we have got are a group of spearmen, one in each city. For that reason and others, I think that a standing army is necessary.

	08-09-2002 22:19									#21
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The problem with not formalizing is that it becomes hard to make a map of the regions/provinces. Plus, if different names and terminology and thrown around, everyone will get confussed
I think we need a little formalization. Besides, what are governments for if not to gerrymander!

	08-09-2002 22:24									#22
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Yea, I'm not propsing we change the names for each cityplanner -- I'd like it if they stayed what they are now, or at least didn't change more than once per Era -- but I think that some things should remain fluid.

For roleplaying purposes, though, it wouldn't be bad if one common name was decided on for the govs and provs. I wouldn't have any objection to it, anyway...

-- adaMada

	11-09-2002 00:25									#23
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*bump*

A day or two left to go...

-- adaMada

	11-09-2002 02:35									#24
	Make titles reflect government style Increase Your PM Length

Make the regional area titles reflect the style of government that is currently in place.

i.e.
Despotism - Region (or some other more approprate word)
Monarcy - Provences (sp?)
Republic - ??
Democracy - State
Communism - Protectorate

They should be different to help differncate between the eras. The Govenor's title would also reflect the area's title type, i.e. Protectorate General for the regional govenor while under a communistic regime

What do you think?

	11-09-2002 08:26									#25
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Make the regional area titles reflect the style of government that is currently in place. i.e. Despotism - Region (or some other more approprate word) Monarcy - Provences (sp?) Republic - ?? Democracy - State Communism - Protectorate They should be different to help differncate between the eras. The Govenor's title would also reflect the area's title type, i.e. Protectorate General for the regional govenor while under a communistic regime What do you think?

Wouldn't be a bad idea at all for roleplaying purposes.

I'd suggest that the next City Planner decide on a naming scheme, and that that scheme be basically kept for the time being.

-- adaMada

	12-09-2002 06:29									#26
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One change to your suggestion for calling them by different names under different governmnets:
Communism: SSR

	12-09-2002 21:25									#27
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The idea of having governors is good in general, but I criticize the way they were implemented in the just ending term (without a poll or public discussion, just as despotic decision).

As for the names of the provinces, Godkings are ok. As for Republic, I would take the term "Province" here as well, why should not both Monarchy and Republic have provinces? IIRC the Romans called their conquered territories also provinces.

Civman2000, there have been more communist states than only the USSR.

	13-09-2002 03:04									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph The idea of having governors is good in general, but I criticize the way they were implemented in the just ending term (without a poll or public discussion, just as despotic decision).

Well, we were in Despotism..............

BTW, all this talk of deputies and I still don't know who the Sheriff is???

	13-09-2002 17:11									#29
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Something I thought of regarding all this, that I think would be sort of important to have, is an order of prestige or precidence within the regions. Obviously Mingapulco and it's governor come first, and at this point I believe Île de France would come last. It could be determined either by the age of the province or the size of it, but it would be used functionally to determine right of succesion with the administration.