21-09-2002 06:59									#61
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Dissident Don't forget the mormons killed a lot of people. They made deals with Indians and killed women, children, and men of a emigrant party from Missouri.

really?

Where did you read this?

	21-09-2002 07:00									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

There was a masacre, I forget the name of it.

	21-09-2002 07:07									#63
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by dunk How many Utahians do you know with more than one wife?

It's not a widespread practice and officials tend to look the other way as long as you don't make a fuss. Officially the Church will excommunicate you for it, but again, as long as you don't attract attention to yourself, the Church elders are inclined to look the other way.

There is a rather large splinter group which demands that its member practice bigamy. They often marry nieces to their uncles and very young girls to older men. Because it is illegal, these marriages often leave one or more spouses in poverty, and can be quite abusive. There is now an organization which helps Morman women escape from this situations.

That said, not all or even most women do wish to leave them. They believe very strongly that it is their religious duty, and they get along well with their "sisters."

I don't have a problem with it as a practice among concenting adults, but I'm deinately opposed to the incestuous, pedersatic, and abusive aspects of it.

	21-09-2002 11:14									#64
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I still say Utah sucks. :

Tuberski=bane of frankychan.

	21-09-2002 17:38									#65
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Utah sucks, mormons suck, inland salt bodies of water suck....

	24-09-2002 20:58									#66
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

who didn't the mormons massacre?

http://www.examiner.com/headlines/d...=n.mormon.0920w

http://wovoca.com/hidden-history-mo...ain-meadows.htm

http://www.visitlewis.com/mormon.html

they spared the children under 7 years old. All other children, women, and men were killed.

	24-09-2002 21:40									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

for the record I love Utah. It is close to Las Vegas. It is simply beautiful. Remember to bring your hard liquor from Nevada though. Same with beer. They do sell that stuff, but they have weird laws about when they can sell it, and I think they are weaker versions of beer. I think everything is less than 5%

Europeans love Zion national park. I felt like I was the only one who spoke English there . There were a lot of Asians as well. I imagine it is considered one of the top tourist National parks along with Yosimite and Yellowstone. If you want to see chicks with wet t-shirts this is the place (although many had something underneath unfortunately). Just hike up the Virgin river. It's fun hiking in the water. The drought has made water levels lower though. So most chicks only had wet bottoms. But pretty much any water on a hot chick is good. We hiked up about 3 miles up river when we were there a couple of months ago. It is crowded, but still a good park.

I have also been to Pine Valley. Good camping there. Lots of deer now. I imagine the drought has made the deer have to lose their fear of humans and get the grass down where the campgrounds are.

Cedar Breaks National monument is also nice. Very pretty.

Bryce Canyon is another national park worth seeing.

I haven't been to Canyonlands and Arches national parks but I may go in October along with a trip to the northern rim of the grand canyon. Yeah its a bunch of rocks. But I consider the rocks to be art created by wind and water. Just as good as any painting if you ask me.

Last edited by Dis on 24-09-2002 at 21:46

	24-09-2002 22:52									#68
	Remove this text

Mormons can make bad choices just as easily as anyone else. Hating Mormons for something that happened in past generations is no different than hating any other group which has made mistakes in their past (which is basically everyone). As a whole, the Mormon religion doesn't have that bloody a history compared to most others. There are many cases of the Mormon's being at the receiving end of the violence before reaching Utah. In any case, it's like hating any other religious/ethnic group for the transgression of their ancestors.

The polygamists in Utah almost invariably are from religions which have branched off from Mormonism. They certainly don't follow modern day LDS teachings. In the LDS religion it is very important to marry within the religion. As there were more women than men in the early days, polygamy did serve a purpose. The generational pressures that affect modern day polygamists weren't there either. It was mostly by choice that these women were married.

I think the main reason Utah is disliked is that Mormons are Christians as well, but one of the basic precepts of their religion is that all other Christian religions have been mislead throughout the ages since Jesus walked the earth. They don't worship the crucifiction, they view the cross as an idol, and claim modern day revelation through prophets. It is a serious affront to the other Christian beliefs.

--------

Geographically, Utah is beautiful. Dissident is right on in his analysis. Canyonlands and Arches are much less crowded than Zion, because it requires a lot more hiking to get to the 'good' stuff for the most part. Still very beautiful, and not as spoiled by the constant traffic.

Even in Zion it isn't much of a hike to make it out of the crowds. Though if you have the good fortune of following up a tour group of co-eds through the narrows.. that shouldn't be a consideration right?

(now that they've switched to a trollie system, instead of allowing free access by car, you could easily stack the deck in your favor by following the 'scenic' group around the park!)