10-09-2002 01:23									#1
	how could you steal a city ? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

i mean by "steal", in fact "buy" a city, so corrupt it.
Did yoyu have the answer, i don't find the answer in the manual, and i 'm asking myself on the possibility Sid meier got to release this otion of the game...

	10-09-2002 01:30									#2
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you can release propaganda into a city via spies but not a lot else
trading of cities for normal goods (in peacetime) was removed in one of the first patches

	10-09-2002 03:04									#3
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Yup, propaganda is the only thing; it costs a fortune and most of of the time, it fails! It's much better just to declare war and take the city by force.

	10-09-2002 04:00									#4
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As someone who has flipped entire civs (including the capitol, although not always) propaganda is a valuable tool. It enables one to initiate a non-violent conquest in one area of the map while being a warmongering sociopath elsewhere.

Before spending (or wasting) your money on a propaganda mission you need to be #1 culturally, the larger the margin of cultural superiority the better your chance of success will be. If they are not at least in awe of you, forget it, it’s a waste of time and money. But if you can get a 10:1 cultural superiority you can flip a weak city halfway across the map, and once you get one more will follow.

If you rule the world (culturally) you should be able to flip a small city (1-3 pop) on the first or second try and a 3-8 pop city within four tries. If the city is size 8 or larger the best you will do with the propaganda mission is to reduce the number of happy citizens so that when you take the city over it will not revolt and flip back.

If you haven’t flipped the city by the sixth try, forget it, you’re just wasting money that could be spent rushing other things or flipping smaller cities.

It can be an interesting way to win, but it does get old. I usually reserve its use to small civs that get caught up in a war because of an MPP (remember; the advisor told you they were stupid.)

	10-09-2002 04:07									#5
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You flipped a capitol?

	10-09-2002 04:31									#6
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quote: Originally posted by miccofl As someone who has flipped entire civs (including the capitol, although not always) propaganda is a valuable tool. It enables one to initiate a non-violent conquest in one area of the map while being a warmongering sociopath elsewhere.

Really?


I'm not saying your wrong, but I just find it hard to believe, but I guess I'll take your word for it.



psst... you wouldn't have a save file of that would you?

	10-09-2002 04:49									#7
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Maybe on a Tiny map or a Small. Otherwise you are so far out by the time you get to a capitol, you will have no culture to flip with. You may not even be connected to your capitol in a late game on Huge map when you get next to their capitol with some captured city.

	10-09-2002 04:58									#8
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Maybe on a Tiny map or a Small. Otherwise you are so far out by the time you get to a capitol, you will have no culture to flip with. You may not even be connected to your capitol in a late game on Huge map when you get next to their capitol with some captured city.

I guess you could, if you aim for it.

Example:

Making a vassal state down to their capital and land lock them, I guess eventualy it would flip.


I did land lock a civ, kinda like that one little nation inside south africa.

	10-09-2002 05:21									#9
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by: Theseus You flipped a capitol?

Yes, twice. In both instances they were very weak, remote, isolated civs and I was a dominant warmongering sociopath and had occupied most of the world. It took about 20 attempts and they were small cities (<7) and I had more gold than I knew what to do with (boredom.) It cost me over 100,000 both times.

quote: Originally posted by:: Thrawn05 psst... you wouldn't have a save file of that would you?

No, unfortunately even with 50 GB of hard drive I still subscribe to the outdated notion of "drivespace conservation." I'm getting better though...

	10-09-2002 05:27									#10
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quote: Originally posted by miccofl No, unfortunately even with 50 GB of hard drive I still subscribe to the outdated notion of "drivespace conservation." I'm getting better though...

At least somone else there believe the HD is the wipping boy of computer programers. No one cares anymore about HD space.


If you come accross it, post it please.

	10-09-2002 05:36									#11
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Sorry, the save files are digital toast. BUT I did take some screenshots right before I flipped the French, capitol and all. When you see the pics you'll know why it worked. http://www.miccofl.net/Civ3/Joansglowingpersonality.htm

	10-09-2002 05:43									#12
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Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!

So, you're sort of an extremist, huh?

	10-09-2002 05:50									#13
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Nah! I only used the minimum number of nukes required to do the job. That left me over 190 in reserve.

	10-09-2002 07:22									#14
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Besides the fact that that was one of the funniest Civ-things I've ever seen, how did it play a part in CFing a capitol?

	10-09-2002 08:34									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Besides the fact that that was one of the funniest Civ-things I've ever seen, how did it play a part in CFing a capitol?

CFing a capital... I still don't get it. Perhaps "Mr. C" can fill us in.

	10-09-2002 08:38									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by miccofl Sorry, the save files are digital toast. BUT I did take some screenshots right before I flipped the French, capitol and all. When you see the pics you'll know why it worked. http://www.miccofl.net/Civ3/Joansglowingpersonality.htm

I'm surprised the skyscrapers are still standing.

I read a thread once about using nukes to clear jungles.

	10-09-2002 17:55									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Theseus Besides the fact that that was one of the funniest Civ-things I've ever seen, how did it play a part in CFing a capitol?

Large cities of a well developed civ cannot usually be flipped; however, if you bombard or nuke the population down, say to 3 or 4, they can generally be flipped quite easily if you have a very high culture level and a bunch of spare gold - even capitols.

After those screenshots were taken I started flipping cities starting at the bottom of the list (under initiate propaganda.) When I got down to just the capitol, it was surrounded and its' population was two. It flipped on the 6th or 7th try. I had about 90,000 culture points.

While flipping capitols is the exception rather than the rule, given the proper circumstances, it can be done. In my latest game I have taken up the habit of spying on all troop movements (I have a nice big world war going on) and waiting for cities to be conquered. I then flip the vanquished city over to my side.

	10-09-2002 18:29									#18
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I'm a dedicated culture flipper, but I've never come close to anything like this. Never. Not even close. I couldn't even imagine that something like this (CFing a capitol) is possible!!

miccofl, you're my God!

Please tell me:
1. When you initiate propaganda to take a city, do you make all your attempts on the same turn, or on consecutive turns or how?
2. Are your chances better if the city has overlapping tiles or it's close to your borders ?
3. Are there any "secret ingredients" to this strategy (I mean other than what you've already written) ?

	10-09-2002 18:48									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

how do you use propoganda

	10-09-2002 19:02									#20
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by miccofl No, unfortunately even with 50 GB of hard drive I still subscribe to the outdated notion of "drivespace conservation." I'm getting better though...

If you have a CD burner, just burn all the savegames into a CD. CDR/CDRW disc is dirt cheap nowadays. I normally get a spindle of 50 for $1.00 or free (after rebate, ofcourse).

	10-09-2002 20:38									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Moonsinger If you have a CD burner, just burn all the savegames into a CD. CDR/CDRW disc is dirt cheap nowadays. I normally get a spindle of 50 for $1.00 or free (after rebate, ofcourse).

Better yet, use that DirectCD thing so you can use CDRW discs like a floppy. 533MB I think it is formatted. To heck with Zip disks this is better.

	10-09-2002 21:16									#22
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quote: Originally posted by miccofl Sorry, the save files are digital toast. BUT I did take some screenshots right before I flipped the French, capitol and all. When you see the pics you'll know why it worked. http://www.miccofl.net/Civ3/Joansglowingpersonality.htm

Ouch! I also liked your later comment about only using "the minimum number to do the job"!

Please do tell us more.

	10-09-2002 21:24									#23
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Better yet, use that DirectCD thing so you can use CDRW discs like a floppy.

Yup, I do that alot. If I have less than 10 Megs, I probably write to CDRW disc; otherwise, I will write them to CDR disc so that I have a complete history of all my projects, savegames or whatever permanently. The bottom line, like you said: it works just like the floppy.

	10-09-2002 21:34									#24
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quote: Originally posted by the letter c how do you use propoganda

Select the capitol you want to target and click on it. A popup comes up and you can choose it from the list. Note that you can not use it on a civ that is Democratic.

	11-09-2002 00:43									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Moonsinger Yup, I do that alot. If I have less than 10 Megs, I probably write to CDRW disc; otherwise, I will write them to CDR disc so that I have a complete history of all my projects, savegames or whatever permanently. The bottom line, like you said: it works just like the floppy.

CDRs are good for backing up downloaded files. I keep my CDRW in the drive as a third HD, I know I should but oh well.

quote: Originally posted by the letter c how do you use propoganda

Do what vmxa1 said, but I would like to point FYI, that the easy way to check what civ has what government, goto the military advisor's screen.

	11-09-2002 01:38									#26
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I do not bother with Spying, an like Thrawn5 said the advisors knows how many units and what they have. If you want to know where there are, then you must spy.

	11-09-2002 01:46									#27
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I do not bother with Spying, an like Thrawn5 said the advisors knows how many units and what they have. If you want to know where there are, then you must spy.

To clarify this a bit... the Military Advisor will tell you nothing about the other AI's military until you set up an embassy. Then, it will tell you the relative strength of your army compared to that of the AI civ. If you want to know (exactly) what units your opponent has, you need to have a spy planted with the AI civ. If you want to know the positions of the enemy troops, you will have to spy and steal the military plans...

	11-09-2002 01:58									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Better yet, use that DirectCD thing so you can use CDRW discs like a floppy. 533MB I think it is formatted. To heck with Zip disks this is better.

DirectCD is a pain. Everytime you insert any kind of CD, regardless of whether it's a RW, it will pop up, and sometimes screw up the auto play. I've had my system crash because of that. I guess it created a conflict that Win 98, my OS at the time, couldn't deal with.

	11-09-2002 02:40									#29
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Thanks vondrack, I should have made that clear. Sometimes I assume to things are in evidence, when they may not be. If you have made all the embassies and put spies in your get the unit data. A seperate spy mission is required to know more details as to location.

	11-09-2002 03:52									#30
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Quotes originally posted by: Tiberius

quote: I'm a dedicated culture flipper, but I've never come close to anything like this. Never. Not even close. I couldn't even imagine that something like this (CFing a capitol) is possible!!

It is indeed possible, unlikely but possible. It’s an odd chance – you try to flip it until you succeed or it becomes economically unviable to do so, and then it’s time to move in the troops. I have failed to flip a capitol far more times than I have succeeded, but I will still spend the 100 or 200K if I have it.

quote: miccofl, you're my God!

Stop it! No man is a god, or ever will be, I have just explored this possibility more than most have tried, I persisted when I should have folded, or to put it into Medieval Times: I would tilt when I should withdraw. I will attempt to flip when I probably should have spent that 200K gold somewhere else.

quote: 1. When you initiate propaganda to take a city, do you make all your attempts on the same turn, or on consecutive turns or how?

Both, either or the initial try, it depends on the situation.

quote: 2. Are your chances better if the city has overlapping tiles or it's close to your borders?

Well your chances are always better when you have a touching or overlapping city. If you are intent on flipping a civ you should pick the weakest spot, flip it and then either surround the civ by taking its’ perimeter cities or work in a U type pattern, (for flipping - your battle tactics are your own concern.)

quote: 3. Are there any "secret ingredients" to this strategy (I mean other than what you've already written)?

Production, Science, Culture, Military, and then Everything else – does that make sense? Find the weakest cities, flip them, build them up and flip the neighbors. For those of you still playing "The Sims," it works there too.