10-09-2002 06:41									#1
	Upgrading to Samurai Get a bigger avatar today!

I wanted to get an answer on this before I began focusing my early Japanese military on swordsman or horsemen. Which of the two upgrade to Samurai? I understand Samurai are considered "Japanese Knights", but to upgrade from Horsemen to Samurai seems wrong, because Samurai require no horses, and are not even mounted, but then again, Swordsmen don't ordinarily upgrade. Any help would be great.

	10-09-2002 07:11									#2
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theyre knights. they upgrade form horsemen.

	10-09-2002 07:30									#3
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Yup, Horsemen to Samurai.

BTW, have much gold ready for the cost, and get ready to kick ass.

	10-09-2002 07:34									#4
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IIRC, they need horses and iron like a regular knight...

	10-09-2002 07:36									#5
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I'm certain they do not require horses, which is why it seems non-sensical to me.

	10-09-2002 08:41									#6
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX IIRC, they need horses and iron like a regular knight...

I just checked the editor... no horse... this has been swiftly corrected.

	10-09-2002 08:43									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I just checked the editor... no horse... this has been swiftly corrected.

neat, thats an added bonus then!

i hated them before, now i hate them even more!

a 4/4/2 unit that JUST needs iron? INSANE.

	10-09-2002 08:45									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Wormwood I'm certain they do not require horses, which is why it seems non-sensical to me.

In my mod, I changed the upgrade paths for the AI's sake, because seeing anchient units in modern age is dull. This might interest you ('...' = continue with normal path, UUs are understood).

Warrior -> Swordsman -> Rifleman...
Archer -> Longbowman -> Rifleman...
Chariot -> Horseman -> Knight -> Cavalry -> Tank...
Frigate -> Ironclad -> Destroyer

The last one was totaly for the AI's sake, seeing loads of Ironclads made me ill in the late modern age games.

	10-09-2002 08:46									#9
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX neat, thats an added bonus then! i hated them before, now i hate them even more! a 4/4/2 unit that JUST needs iron? INSANE.

Chulk one up to Firaxis... I'm giving this UU coal for a resource.

	10-09-2002 08:47									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 Chulk one up to Firaxis... I'm giving this UU coal for a resource.

	10-09-2002 09:02									#11
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX

I just remember how much I hate immortals... looks like someone needs an OIL change.

	10-09-2002 09:21									#12
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quote: Originally posted by UberKruX neat, thats an added bonus then! i hated them before, now i hate them even more! a 4/4/2 unit that JUST needs iron? INSANE.

A Samurai costs more than twice of an Immortal, 70 vs 30 shields.

You get a really good deal for the Panzers, costing only 100 shields and many times more powerful than Samurai.

I agree that Samurai is annoying, butI think Legionaries and Immortals are far worse.

	10-09-2002 09:46									#13
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Thrawn05, does'nt that make Leos's sort of a mega wonder. Now you have never ending upgrades at a discount. The Civ that gets it can really roll.

	10-09-2002 11:47									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 In my mod, I changed the upgrade paths for the AI's sake, because seeing anchient units in modern age is dull. This might interest you ('...' = continue with normal path, UUs are understood). Warrior -> Swordsman -> Rifleman... Archer -> Longbowman -> Rifleman... Chariot -> Horseman -> Knight -> Cavalry -> Tank... Frigate -> Ironclad -> Destroyer The last one was totaly for the AI's sake, seeing loads of Ironclads made me ill in the late modern age games.

I've done exactly the same thing, plus upgrading bombers, and tank to MA. Only thing I change is making Longbowman appear with Feudalism, so the have a short few turns as the best attack unit. Ironclads escorting galleys gets to me

	10-09-2002 16:05									#15
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I don't like changing things in the editor. It is an extra challenge to get those hated units against you!

	10-09-2002 19:26									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Kampus majore I don't like changing things in the editor. It is an extra challenge to get those hated units against you!

It simply allows the AI the opportunity to upgrade it's obsolete units, but more importantly, removes them from the build queue, so they won't be building Longbowman along with Tanks.

	10-09-2002 20:11									#17
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Thrawn05, does'nt that make Leos's sort of a mega wonder. Now you have never ending upgrades at a discount. The Civ that gets it can really roll.

To tell you the truth, I don't upgrade my mass of Legionary units to Riflemen (I don't build pikemen), it usualy costs me about 20,000 gold, somthing I don't have. So I disband most of them a keep a few in Roma for cosmetic effect.

	10-09-2002 20:12									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Wormwood It simply allows the AI the opportunity to upgrade it's obsolete units, but more importantly, removes them from the build queue, so they won't be building Longbowman along with Tanks.

I will go back to the original tech path if the AI knows how and when to disband a unit properly, and ignore building it in the furture.

Until then, I have to give the AI a chance.