11-09-2002 07:55									#1
	If we get a GL, what shall we do with him Enter the AD-FREE zone

We are currently involved in a fierce war with persia. We have 5 elite units that will soon enter combat. There is a chance we will get a gl, if so what shall we do with him.
I see 2 real options
1)Build Forbidden palace
2)Build Wonder( Sun Tsu War Academy comes to mind)
This is the thread to make your feelings known.
Aggie

	11-09-2002 08:01									#2
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PALACE!

I need something to be my eternal tomb

	11-09-2002 08:09									#3
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Great Wonder if one is available, Army if not, as a victorious army will trigger our ability to build more Small Wonders including the Heroic Epic which increase GL probability.

	11-09-2002 08:17									#4
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Army first.
Then a great wonder (leo's soon!!!)
Hold on to him for another great wonder
then a small wonder if people insist on using
then a palace jump if the people will

Any use other than an army first, or all great wonders after is a waste IMO

	11-09-2002 08:24									#5
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quote: Originally posted by GodKing Army first. Then a great wonder (leo's soon!!!) Hold on to him for another great wonder then a small wonder if people insist on using then a palace jump if the people will Any use other than an army first, or all great wonders after is a waste IMO

If we hold on to him we miss the chance of generating another GL.

	11-09-2002 08:47									#6
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With a GL you only get one at a time. I was thinking the Sun Tsu war acadeny personally, then if we got pyramids we would have granary/barracks in each city, thenour next gl builds an fp in persia. Just a suggextion, yes i know some of it is dreaming, but we can hope.
Aggie

	11-09-2002 09:35									#7
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I would like to have the Sistine Chapel myself. Think about it: Doubling the effect of Cathedrals...

However, to be realistic, we should create an army. That would enable us to build the Heroic Epic and eventually the Military Academy, and thus create more heroes.

	11-09-2002 10:30									#8
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An Army... I'm not sure. We could use a GW like Sun Tzu right now.

	11-09-2002 10:41									#9
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Well it depends on when we get it. If we get it very soon then build an army, as we could use one in our war against the Persians. But if we get it later then perhaps Forbidden Palace or a Wonder.

Anyhow I think this calls for a poll...

	11-09-2002 10:43									#10
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Yes, it sure does, but what ministery is it under?

	11-09-2002 10:59									#11
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The Ministery of Great Leaders

Like we need another ministery...

No seriously this could be a joint decision between the military and publicworks or something.... with Prez.

Although the result would be military wanting an Army and pubicworks or something wanting a wonder... So in the end it is up to the President to decide.

	11-09-2002 11:08									#12
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I am not going to worry about it unless it happens. 5 Elites in battle still only gives 5 independent tries at 1/16 each. Nothing to get to excited about. I still remember my first GL; created in a defensive attack that killed him the same turn he was created. It was a medium sized defensive group, but the AI concentrated on it as soon as the GL was created; he didn't have a chance.

	11-09-2002 11:42									#13
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quote: Originally posted by kring I am not going to worry about it unless it happens. 5 Elites in battle still only gives 5 independent tries at 1/16 each. Nothing to get to excited about. I still remember my first GL; created in a defensive attack that killed him the same turn he was created. It was a medium sized defensive group, but the AI concentrated on it as soon as the GL was created; he didn't have a chance.

Poor Leader.

	11-09-2002 12:30									#14
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quote: Originally posted by kring I am not going to worry about it unless it happens. 5 Elites in battle still only gives 5 independent tries at 1/16 each. Nothing to get to excited about. I still remember my first GL; created in a defensive attack that killed him the same turn he was created. It was a medium sized defensive group, but the AI concentrated on it as soon as the GL was created; he didn't have a chance.

This is exactly what happened to my first GL!
I was at war with the Zulus and landed my forces on a mountain beside a city. Before my turn came they had attacked the mountain some dozen times giving me a leader and destroying it. Then I decided it was time to sue for peace.

	11-09-2002 13:51									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos Yes, it sure does, but what ministery is it under?

The Ministry of Silly Walks

	11-09-2002 15:47									#16
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Build an army. It would give chances to build Heroic Epic...and further GLs

It's too early to build a FP, our territry could enhance in the future and we don't know yet the best place for it.
IMHO, building the FP in the Uber Isle isn't a good idea.

	11-09-2002 15:57									#17
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Move the palace to a more central location (say Gaia, Banana HQ, or Del Monte, maybe Termina or Tassagrad).

Alternatively, use it to build an army to get the Heroic Epic. (Also, isn't Sun-Tzu under construction in Apolytonia?)

	11-09-2002 18:03									#18
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quote: Originally posted by astrologix It's too early to build a FP, our territry could enhance in the future and we don't know yet the best place for it. IMHO, building the FP in the Uber Isle isn't a good idea.

I fully agree, I think the FP should be in Timeline or Gaia as it would be permanent and the Palace could jump to Uber or Persia and then jump somewhere else later as its portable.

	11-09-2002 18:09									#19
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Build an army and win a battle with that army so we can build the Heroic Epic and get leaders MUCH more often.

	11-09-2002 18:19									#20
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Rather than being a straight choice between palace, acadamy or wonder were going to have to look at the details.

Before any decision is made were going to have to formalize a plan for FP and Palace. So that we can look at what effect using a leader for this would have.

Then we have to look at our long term plans for wars. If were going to continue being as war like as we are now then an acadamy is a better idea.

We also need to look at how specific wonders would effect our long term plans.

Once we see how the Perisan war is going to end up (after the next turns perhaps) the CP should begin discussions and come to a final decision on palace and FP.

	11-09-2002 18:54									#21
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Perhaps all we can do is wait until we actually GET one and see what options are available to us then.

I would favour an Army if we are to continue pushing a war (eg the Persian war) for the Heroic Epic. If we are to stop the war, then it is FP/Wonder, but what chance is there that we will get to start a WoW before someone else has almost finished? The only way would be to sit and develop for a while so we could catch up techwise. FP? Only if we had the immediate benefit that we could place it, or relocate the Palace, so that an advantage is created. Until Uber Island is almost fully settled and has a few cities of >5 or so I don't think there would be enough of an advantage. Uber Island is pretty close to Apolyton, thus it won't be very corrupt until we reach an appreciable sixe there.

Basically it depends on when we get the GL. We don't want to hold on to one GL for very long unless we are fully at peace, as it prevents us from getting others.

Wait and see...

	11-09-2002 22:58									#22
	The immeadeate desicion is that.... Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

We need to consider WHAT we will do with a GL. Do we:
1) use him immeadeately for something (i.e. Army, GW, FP). This will be desided during a turnchat.
2) hold on to him and wait until the turnchat has ended and deside what we will do with him in the forums. This will require safegarding him/moving him towards the best place he needs to be.

These are the questions that NEED to be answered at this point in time.

E_T

	12-09-2002 00:29									#23
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I would vote to get Sun Tzu's academy fast. One of our main advantages in battle is the lack of enenmy veterans. We start every battle with a 4 on 3 HP advantage, which helps immensely. An I civ who gets Sun Tzu's academy will negate this advantage, plus make it cheaper for them to upgrade and easier. In short, any AI who gets this will be a strong military opponent long term. I is very possible that either the Romeor the Aztecs might get it, in their capitols, which are very far away by both land and sea, which would make a quick strike to take it out difficult.

The AI getting Sun Tzu will make our life harder- better to stop this, and gain the benefits for ourselves. I think this is a better use of any possible GL, if gotten in time, than a long term aim of getting more GL's in the future. Also, more veterans for the enemy, more elites, more possible GL's for the militaristic AI's around us (Germany, Aztecs)

	12-09-2002 00:46									#24
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You're absolutely right. I've changed my mind - first Sun Tzu's Art of War, then an army and the Heroic Epic.

	12-09-2002 01:23									#25
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Fully agree, if Sun Tzu is still available build it immediately. I DO NOT advocate storing GLs. They should be used as instantly as possible to allow the potential generation of another.

I think the record is 8 GL's in one turn. Forgot who it was that attained it though.

	12-09-2002 01:31									#26
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use him fast ASLONG it is not for an army! they wont be handy until we have OR knight OR cavalary

	12-09-2002 01:35									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword use him fast ASLONG it is not for an army! they wont be handy until we have OR knight OR cavalary

Just because we build an Army, doesn't mean we have to fill right away.

I usually have several empty armies, standing around (course I never put a unit into an army until it's generated a GL) they come in handy as Not So Great Leaders as you can dispand them for a huge boost to the city's production.

	12-09-2002 01:51									#28
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When you disband an empty army, how big is the boost to the city production? How many shields?

	12-09-2002 01:58									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Aro When you disband an empty army, how big is the boost to the city production? How many shields?

How many shields does it take to build one?

I'm not sure what the ratio is, but they always finished what I was building. Except one time I was building a Palace, and it knocked the construction time down to 2 turns.

	12-09-2002 02:02									#30
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I say an army, to generate the Heroic Epic. We are just coming towards a real sweet spot as far as wonders is concerned -- with Leo's, Sistine, Copernicus, etc. in to be built in the near future. Our best hope at these prizes is increasing the rate of leader generation. Given our situation, it looks to me like we can expect a series of wars ahead (precipitated by our central position and our aggressive neighbors -- not necessarily by unilateral aggression on our part). Meaning, lots of battles ahead. We stand to generate 2 or 3, maybe more leaders, if we play this right.
Sun Tzu's is a nice wonder to have -- but not irreplaceable. If we don't get it, we simply have to build more barracks (though it would be a shame to see it in the hands of a dangerous rival, as it makes conquest of a target civ far more costly).
No, we need to plan for the long term. That means either the Forbidden Palace (which we don't really need yet, as corruption is not yet crippling our productivity), and the Heroic Epic, which will pay off handsomely in the long run.