11-09-2002 14:25									#1
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In my games I have been capturing a number of enemy artillery units(catapults, cannons..). All of them was ground units. Some days ago I read in a post that you could even capture bombers. I had the opportunity to try this yesterday but it failed. I attacked an AI city which happened to have 10 bombers inside. When I conquered it they were all destroyed. While it was a big relief to see his entire bomber fleet burn to ashes it would have been an even greater joy to have these birds added to my own air-force.

Have any of you captured enemy bombers? If yes, how?

	11-09-2002 14:41									#2
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I've never heard of capturing bombers or ships. They are destroyed when the city is captured.
Could you find the post?

	11-09-2002 14:56									#3
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Here it is: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=59716 page two, 27-08-2002 20:15

	11-09-2002 15:10									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I've never heard of capturing bombers or ships. They are destroyed when the city is captured. Could you find the post?

Capturing aircraft is possible, once you have the tech necessary to build that unit. I've captured plenty of stealth bombers before now. If you don't have the requisite tech, the units are destoyed (same as with artillery). I don't know if there are any other factors at work in addition to this.

	11-09-2002 15:16									#5
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Bongo, you're right.

quote: I used my armies to take four of their cities and destroy the fifth on my next turn. (I also captured 13 stealth bombers.)

and again:

quote: My 13 stealth bombers, augmented by 8 more captured from the Chinese, were spread along three of my coastlines

	11-09-2002 15:18									#6
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Sorry Vulture, I didn't see your post.
I didn't know that and I haven't noticed it either.

	11-09-2002 15:21									#7
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I could swear that yesterday, when I occupied 3 cities from the frech, I had flight and I still didn't get the planes. They were destroyed. Maybe there are some other factors, too ?

Edited:
Now I remember more clearly. I haven't had any bomber, but there were already on my building queues in several cities. The only tech the french had in front of me was Space Flight. Why didn't I get the bombers?

Last edited by Tiberius on 11-09-2002 at 15:37

	11-09-2002 15:46									#8
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I had already built a number of aircrafts on my own before I captured the city with the bombers. It was even connected to my trade network but no. The bombers were destroyed.(normal old-fashioned bombers not those new shiny stealth thingies)

Maybe the ability to capture bombers have been removed in the latest patch? Thinking back I cannot remember capturing ANY artillery units after 1.29f.

	11-09-2002 15:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I could swear that yesterday, when I occupied 3 cities from the frech, I had flight and I still didn't get the planes. They were destroyed. Maybe there are some other factors, too ? Edited: Now I remember more clearly. I haven't had any bomber, but there were already on my building queues in several cities. The only tech the french had in front of me was Space Flight. Why didn't I get the bombers?

Just a guess, but perhaps you can only capture the bombers in a city with an airport, while they are detroyed in cities without airports. Or maybe its something else entirely, or just random...

	11-09-2002 15:48									#10
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Just a thought, maybe I need advanced flight to capture bombers? I normally skip that one and go for computers instead.

	11-09-2002 18:04									#11
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quote: Originally posted by: vulture Capturing aircraft is possible, once you have the tech necessary to build that unit. I've captured plenty of stealth bombers before now. If you don't have the requisite tech, the units are destoyed (same as with artillery).

You must have altered the rules. I have been well into the future techs and still the bombers are destroyed. In the editor, general tab, is the capture unit window set to stealth bomber? Also, to be captured and not killed a unit must have no offense or defense capabilities.

	11-09-2002 18:21									#12
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quote: Originally posted by vulture Capturing aircraft is possible, once you have the tech necessary to build that unit. I've captured plenty of stealth bombers before now. If you don't have the requisite tech, the units are destoyed (same as with artillery). I don't know if there are any other factors at work in addition to this.

That's good info! Thanks! I have been wondering about that myself. Sometimes, I can capture them; some other times, they are destroyed. I thought it was random, but now I know.

	11-09-2002 21:45									#13
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Any one who claims that captured aircraft or ships needs to submit a save game the turn before to prove it. I flat out say they are nuts.

	11-09-2002 21:55									#14
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I won't say it can't happen, just that I've never done it.

	12-09-2002 00:32									#15
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I was refering to capturing artillery in my previous post. I have never been able to capture any air units.

	12-09-2002 01:49									#16
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Any time I've taken a city with enemy air units inside, those air units have been destroyed. In all cases, I had the tech required to build those air units. The same goes for sea units.

AFAIK, the only units you can capture are workers (settlers too, which become workers) and ground bombard units.

-Arrian

	12-09-2002 11:25									#17
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quote: Originally posted by miccofl You must have altered the rules. I have been well into the future techs and still the bombers are destroyed. In the editor, general tab, is the capture unit window set to stealth bomber? Also, to be captured and not killed a unit must have no offense or defense capabilities.

Checked the civilopedia last night and noticed the following: All ground based artillery have zero attack and defence values. Same goes for stealth air units. Other air units all have AD values other than 0, thats why I can't capure them.

You still need to have the neccesary tech to build the captured unit yourself though.

One mystery less Luckily the world is still full of them

	12-09-2002 12:22									#18
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So you can capture only stealth air units?

Now if I read once again the previous posts, everybody who had captured air units was talking about capturing stealth units.

Hmm, interesting. I don't really understand why is this difference between regular and stealth units, but anyway, good to know.

Well done, Bongo

	12-09-2002 13:52									#19
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Tiberius, the difference lies in the fact that stealth units have AD-values of zero.

My guess is that if you modified normal bombers into having AD=0,0 they would also be capturable(btw, is that a real word??). Same goes for transports but as I haven't modified the game yet that remains just a guess.

Feel free to test that theory anyone, I don't think i will take the time to do it myself. At least not today as I'm going to fire some REAL bullets later.

	12-09-2002 16:07									#20
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I understand the difference in terms of the game, I just don't understand why Firaxis made it this way.

PS
My english isn't perfect, either, so what I do when I'm not sure about a word is check it on www.dictionary.com. Apparently there is no such word as "capturable"

	12-09-2002 16:37									#21
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Maybe this was the simplest way of implementing stealth units in the game? I don't know, just my 2 øre.

	12-09-2002 16:48									#22
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I think they didnīt think it through.

Maybe the Stealth-Units didnīt need An defence-Factor, cos they had the Stealth Factor prevents them from being attacked by Air Defences, so they set Defense to 0.
What they didnīt think about was, that those it also meant that those Units could be captured.

I think I will mod Stealth-Units so they have Attack and Defense-Values

	12-09-2002 17:02									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST I think they didnīt think it through. Maybe the Stealth-Units didnīt need An defence-Factor, cos they had the Stealth Factor prevents them from being attacked by Air Defences, so they set Defense to 0.

I was thinking the same as your #2 about the AD-values.

#1 also seems to be a valid point

Ah well. I am acually pleased with knowing How. Why is not necessary.

	12-09-2002 17:14									#24
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I did the obvious, and set up a scenario with the editor to test this. Results:

Units destroyed:

fighter
bomber
jet fighter
helicopter
tactical nuke
ICBM

Units captured:

catapult
cannon
artillery
radar artillery
cruise missile
stealth fighter
stealth bomber

I didn't bother with any ships as I already know that they get destroyed. Due to the seemingly arbitrarry division of units into what gets captured and what doesn't, I suspect the stealth units may be there in error, but still, that's the way the game works in 1.29f.

Oh, and of course, you need the requisite techs to capture the units.

It took all of 10 minutes to check this using the editor and playing a few 'games'.

	12-09-2002 17:26									#25
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vulture

I don't have a pocket-edition of the civilopedia with me but my guess is that units on your 'destroyed'-list all have AD-values other than zero. The units on the 'captured'-list all have AD=0(I haven't checked the cruise-missile). BTW, all ships have non-zero AD-values.

Great work! I'll have to check out the editor myself one rainy day.

	12-09-2002 17:35									#26
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quote: Originally posted by bongo vulture I don't have a pocket-edition of the civilopedia with me but my guess is that units on your 'destroyed'-list all have AD-values other than zero. The units on the 'captured'-list all have AD=0(I haven't checked the cruise-missile). BTW, all ships have non-zero AD-values. Great work! I'll have to check out the editor myself one rainy day.

Sorry, bongo, your theory does not work... I have just checked it in the 'pedia and ICBMs and tactical nukes have A=D=0. If you were right, they would have to be captured, not destroyed...

vulture, did you give yourself the prerequisite techs? Were you able to build ICBMs and tactical nukes yourself?

	12-09-2002 17:40									#27
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Sorry, bongo, your theory does not work... I have just checked it and ICBMs and tactical nukes have D=0. If you were right, they would have to be captured, not destroyed... vulture, did you give yourself the prerequisite techs? Were you able to build ICBMs and tactical nukes yourself?

I gave myself every single tech, but no city improvements or wonders, and on one run through just gave myself ancient era techs (and all the units apart from catapults were destroyed then). Didn't have any resources at all. I suspect that bongo is right but that there is code in place to make an exception for nuclear weapons so that they can't be captured. It is possible (I suppose) that there is some kind of Manhattan Project based trigger for capturing nukes, but given that it is a great wonder I doubt it.

EDIT: A quick check shows that even with the Manhattan project, and all the reosurces gto buld nukes myself, the nuclear weapons are still destroyed when the city is captured.

	12-09-2002 18:00									#28
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Well, I am not sure how the system works but I've put a defense of 1 to my Artillery and Radar Artillery Units. Thus I am not able to capture them when I attack them, I can only destroy them!

So long....

	12-09-2002 18:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer Well, I am not sure how the system works but I've put a defense of 1 to my Artillery and Radar Artillery Units. Thus I am not able to capture them when I attack them, I can only destroy them!

Ah, this perhaps explains why you can use them as military police in your games (re: your post in another thread where you mentioned using arty to prevent flipping).

	12-09-2002 18:15									#30
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So nukes are a special case? Maybe have a 'no capture'-flag set, something like that?

Pioneer: At least half of my theory is right, you can't capture units with non-zero AD.