14-09-2002 23:58									#61
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: You'll just put another dictator who will bow to your ill interests (hint: oil oil oil.

Who we put in power will not affect oil at all. Whatever form of government, whoever the leader faces bankruptcy as a nation or selling oil at competetive prices. They can not afford to hoard their oil, with the distributioin of wealth in those nations it would do them little good to have it, thus they must sell it.

	15-09-2002 01:04									#62
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You'll have to forgive Zylka, Kramerman.
He stays heavily medicated, most of the time.

	15-09-2002 03:17									#63
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand You'll have to forgive Zylka, Kramerman. He stays heavily medicated, most of the time.

I forgive no one...

	15-09-2002 03:59									#64
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I did not vote, but here is my 2 cents:

Iraq is the next Vietnam. We hit a brick wall b/c Bush (or next PResident) does not want to commit too many troops. Iraqi soldiers perfect guerrilla tactics, American army has problems taking and holding many areas. Morale declines. President because afraid to commit more troops, public support falls, Bush calls on the "Great Silent Majority" ($10 if you know what that is and didn't live in the late 60s early 70s) to stand up to the enemy. Protests abound. The average American is against the war, support for government falters.

Now, in my mind, there are three ways the war ends:
1-We win. A huge commitment of troops finally gives a victory.
2-We pull out. US humilated, the world says "I told you so."
3a-Saddam develops WMD, uses them on US troops. US retaliates with WMD (not likely)
3b-Saddam develops WMD, uses them on US troops. Bush completely pulls out of Iraq.

I think this won't be AS BAD as Vietnam, because of total media shutdown. This kills freedom of the press, Government breaks American ideals for sake of war. IF this happens, I still think a few horrifying media pictures still get through.

Unfortunately I am seeing MyLai all over again...

	15-09-2002 04:10									#65
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I'm short-sighted? And you think Saddam just flys airplanes himself and sprays DU and causes cancer, poisons water and food supplies etc.???

quote: Why would the US want to put a dictator in power???

Good old Uncle Sam put Saddam in power long time ago, while he obeyed you. As a matter of fact you feared another Iran and you'd rather have him and stop the spread of Islam.

quote: The reason why Afghan women wear veils (they are not made to by the government, most are either willing cause they feel it is their culture or they are made to do it by their relatives or locals) is because it is in their culture. Even if the Afghan democracy wants to make their women wear them, who is the US or anyone else in the world to say they cant do this? They are their own nation now.

One of the ways CNN describbed backwardness under the Taliban regime was its maltreatment of women, who were beaten and forced to wear veils over their faces and were banned from education etc. Not a single change has happened under the new regime.

quote: And the US is responsible for the crapy living conditions in Iraq how? Sanctions you say?

Have YOU ever lived under sanctions? I guess not so don't even think on basing an argument purely on that Saddam could divert more money in infrastructure when there is no way of making an income or importing essential goods. And the ways shipments of medicines for cancer and similar diseases has been banned because chemicals used in them could be turned into weapons makes me sick.

quote: Why would the US want to put a dictator in power??? Our interests in the middle east would by far be best served by a moderate arab democracy.

Because a trully democratic regime wouldn't care less about your interests and would not let its country be manipulated by corporate power. Plus placing another dictator wouldn't be the first time.

quote: hmmm, lets try to blow things out of proportion just a little more, ok?

Stating the facts in the way the rest of the civilized world sees it doesn't mean blowing things out of proportion.

quote: as Cybergod has so graciously pointed out, under Saddam's regime a WTC amount of civilians die regularly under Saddams regime, and thats just from poor standards of living.

I graciously said that the number of children that die each month is roughly the same as the number of civilians killed on 9/11. Not to mention the rest of the adult population. And their deaths are partically if not mostly caused by the US army. Yeah, radiation and cancer just happen out of poor standards of living, right?

quote: Regaurdless, anyone who has taken a high school chemistry class knows that the radioactivity of Uranium can only cause cancer to those through 'large' doses and long periods of exposure, unless one is genetically predisposed to cancer, which 1 in 3 humans are anyway. Anyway, anylong term deaths related to the limited use of dpleted uranium rounds is minimal.

THAT IS A LOAD OF BLATTANT LIES I need only state that in Bosnia and Serbia (including Kosovo) cancer rates have soared since the "humanitarian" interventions. And any number of deaths by this way is inhumane IMO.

quote: EDIT: Lets not forget that Saddam, being the brave man that he is, has clustered his military installation in cities and other densly populated areas so he can use the civilians as human shields. You can blame the US for the enevitable civilian casualties, but IMHO, Saddam is ultimately the bastard responsible.

Same exuses you use in every war you get involved in. When Yugoslavia was bombed, on the news there were claims that there were mass arsenaries of weapons in hospitals, schools and factories. I watched one NATO missile bomb video on how the bomb aproached a building that was a typical Belgrade block of flats - later on, the video was shown no more and no one uttered a word of its existence.

I read a report some while ago about an Iraqi family of shepherds who had a gathering in a valley, and they were bombed to bits by the US aircraft. Yeah, sheeps had uranium-rich wool I should think. Of course, this was never mentioned by the media.

	15-09-2002 04:14									#66
	Remove this text

Do you Markos and Dan would let this poll be fine-tuned a little bit?
Maybe get down to the hour and minute, like a child birth?
Kick in some coin that goes to the winner?
Come on ! Let's gamble!

	15-09-2002 04:33									#67
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

October (February) 13th (12th if Feb), 9:00, 30 seconds on the clock.

i put 60cents on them each.....

i will graciously leave CyberGod's post for cooler heads.

	15-09-2002 04:34									#68
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It will take at least 6 months to get a decent sized military force deployed to the area, so the war could not possibly take place before March or April 2003. Take into consideration also at least 2 months for the UN to debate the thing out, and that the US will not start deploying major element until then, so I don't think that the war could possibly start before May 2003.

	15-09-2002 05:31									#69
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quote: Originally posted by cgannon64 I did not vote, but here is my 2 cents: Iraq is the next Vietnam. We hit a brick wall b/c Bush (or next PResident) does not want to commit too many troops. Iraqi soldiers perfect guerrilla tactics, American army has problems taking and holding many areas. Morale declines. President because afraid to commit more troops, public support falls, Bush calls on the "Great Silent Majority" ($10 if you know what that is and didn't live in the late 60s early 70s) to stand up to the enemy. Protests abound. The average American is against the war, support for government falters. Now, in my mind, there are three ways the war ends: 1-We win. A huge commitment of troops finally gives a victory. 2-We pull out. US humilated, the world says "I told you so." 3a-Saddam develops WMD, uses them on US troops. US retaliates with WMD (not likely) 3b-Saddam develops WMD, uses them on US troops. Bush completely pulls out of Iraq. I think this won't be AS BAD as Vietnam, because of total media shutdown. This kills freedom of the press, Government breaks American ideals for sake of war. IF this happens, I still think a few horrifying media pictures still get through. Unfortunately I am seeing MyLai all over again...

Where did you get your, for want of a better word, facts on any of the long-winded drivel?

	15-09-2002 08:54									#70
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It's going to be another Slowwhand

Uh huh

	17-09-2002 08:19									#71
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc We try to leave that to the Russian army.

I knew someday this link will be usefull. Have a nice reading DinoDock:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/j.../afgh-j17.shtml

This quote is for you Kramerman:
"One Afghan, shown in battle fatigues, says of the treatment of prisoners in the Shibarghan camp: “I was a witness when an American soldier broke one prisoner’s neck and poured acid on others. The Americans did whatever they wanted. We had no power to stop them.”"
Btw, you could also watch "The platoon" movie, if you think that your soldiers 'do not rape, pillage, plunder, or murder. '

It was my two cents to warm up this discusion.
Have a nice day

	17-09-2002 08:31									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Of course, Serb, to be fair, we shouldn't forget about, say, Katyn Forest, or what Soviet troops did to Germans in Soviet-occupied territory.

And no, years of Nazi occupation did NOT justify any atrocities against German civilians

	17-09-2002 08:57									#73
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

And no, one day of September 11 did NOT justify any atrocities against Afghan pow.

	17-09-2002 09:00									#74
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Certainly not. But then again, I've never claimed otherwise

Remember who you're dealing with - one of the most politically consistent people on Poly. You're not gonna get anywhere with this one

	17-09-2002 10:13									#75
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Certainly not. But then again, I've never claimed otherwise

I know. I was trying to say that sh*t could happens everywhere abd with everybody.

quote: Remember who you're dealing with - one of the most politically consistent people on Poly.

You Really?

	17-09-2002 11:10									#76
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quote: I'm short-sighted? And you think Saddam just flys airplanes himself and sprays DU and causes cancer, poisons water and food supplies etc.???

quote: Good old Uncle Sam put Saddam in power long time ago, while he obeyed you. As a matter of fact you feared another Iran and you'd rather have him and stop the spread of Islam.

err... actually Saddam scratched and clawed his own way into power. The US has nothing to do with him becoming dictator. I dont like Saddam, but I dont underestimate his abilities, and neither should you.
here is an ok source for a Saddam Bio, i just got it off the first thing on a google search:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1100529.stm

However, the US did 'support' his regime early on because he was enemies with Iran, and as the old axiam goes, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. How would Saddam further the spread of ISlam, and why would America care? Islam is the fastest growing religion in our country and thats great. I think you are refering to radical Islam, and if that be the case, then again, we were choosing the lesser of two evils at the time.

quote: One of the ways CNN describbed backwardness under the Taliban regime was its maltreatment of women, who were beaten and forced to wear veils over their faces and were banned from education etc. Not a single change has happened under the new regime.

Not a single change??? Again I question your news source. Mine is the BBC (they have such cool accents) and I have seen numerous stories on the betterment of so many peoples lives. Of course not everyone is happy, but no one ever is, and alot of people are upset or disappointed. But I am quite certain there have been significant changes for the better since the Taliban was deposed. To deny this is rediculous. Ill get some sources later, if you wish, but I havent the time presently.

quote: Have YOU ever lived under sanctions? I guess not so don't even think on basing an argument purely on that Saddam could divert more money in infrastructure when there is no way of making an income or importing essential goods. And the ways shipments of medicines for cancer and similar diseases has been banned because chemicals used in them could be turned into weapons makes me sick.

No, I havent lived under sanctions.
Let me ask you somethn. Are you aware of why there are sanctions on Iraq for such items as medicines??? Those sacntions were added after Saddam expelled the arms inspectors, because without the arms inspectors in the country there would be no way to keep tabs on Saddams WoMD manufacturing. This being a major threat to the US we have to hinder his progress as best as possible by denying him access to these products. It is very, very sad indeed. But it is ALL Saddams fault. He never had to kick the UN inspectors out, and he can always invite them back at anytime. But he doesnt cause he can care less about his own people and cares more about his precious WoMD.

quote: Because a trully democratic regime wouldn't care less about your interests and would not let its country be manipulated by corporate power. Plus placing another dictator wouldn't be the first time.

Would care less about our interests, like say, Great Brittain or Japan or Canada or Austrailia,ets,ets ? Please. Our closest allies are democracies and they all care about Americas interests just like we care about theirs because this is an interconnected world. We are all on the same team. But if you wish to believe your fanciful little conspiracy theories of the evil corporate Americans then go right ahead.

Though I can recall many occasions that the US has backed dictators, because, again, they were the lessor of two evils, I cannot recall a single time the US has deliberately placed a dictator in power.

But AMAZINGLY, I can recall many, many times where we have set up democracies, and it has worked out in our best interests almost everytime, with the exception of a few. Such would include the Philopeans, Japan and Germany (two of some of the most prosperous nations today, may I add ), Cuba (that was ok for about 50 years, until the communists seized power), and alot more.

quote: quote: hmmm, lets try to blow things out of proportion just a little more, ok? Stating the facts in the way the rest of the civilized world sees it doesn't mean blowing things out of proportion.

Well, if the rest of the world, at least in your opinion, blows things out of proportion, that doesnt mean its still not blowing things way out of proportion, its just doing it on a large scale

quote: I graciously said that the number of children that die each month is roughly the same as the number of civilians killed on 9/11. Not to mention the rest of the adult population. And their deaths are partically if not mostly caused by the US army. Yeah, radiation and cancer just happen out of poor standards of living, right?

How are they caused by the US army?
IIRC, 1 in 3 people will get cancer (at least in the US, i dunno if that is a world wide stat). Thats alot, and cancer happens almost regaurdless of the standard of living. Of course in more developed nations where there are restrictions on carcinoginic chemicals that helps make the cancer rates drop when compared to developing nations that use pesticides and such like DDT that has been long banned in many developed nations. Plus better water quality, etc helps too.
I dont understand why you mention radiation?

quote: THAT IS A LOAD OF BLATTANT LIES I need only state that in Bosnia and Serbia (including Kosovo) cancer rates have soared since the "humanitarian" interventions. And any number of deaths by this way is inhumane IMO.

The cancer rates have been soaring worldwide. There are thousands of factors that could explain this. It is ignorant to blame it on depleted Uranium ammunition. The former Yugoslavia, Im sure I dont have to remind you, is in relatively close proximity to Cherenobyle...
If depleted uranium is so radioactive, then how do explain the normal occurance of cancer in the Tank crews of MI-A1 abrhams who work next to an entire cache of the stuff???

quote: Same exuses you use in every war you get involved in. When Yugoslavia was bombed, on the news there were claims that there were mass arsenaries of weapons in hospitals, schools and factories. I watched one NATO missile bomb video on how the bomb aproached a building that was a typical Belgrade block of flats - later on, the video was shown no more and no one uttered a word of its existence.

Yeah, Im sure NATO bombed a hospital and school to destroy a weapons cache .
You shouldnt forget, either, that the US is only one member of NATO...
Im not denying that innocents died by the hand of NATO...but...no...you are right... we should of let the Serbs continue to ethnically clense thousands... what were we thinking???

quote: I read a report some while ago about an Iraqi family of shepherds who had a gathering in a valley, and they were bombed to bits by the US aircraft. Yeah, sheeps had uranium-rich wool I should think. Of course, this was never mentioned by the media.

I read a report once that Elvis was spotted at the local seven-eleven...
Ya know if this ever happened, AL JAzeera and countless anti-American publications around the world would of been all over it. But if one believes something so strongly, another can do nothing to change that.

Kman

	17-09-2002 11:24									#77
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quote: This quote is for you Kramerman: "One Afghan, shown in battle fatigues, says of the treatment of prisoners in the Shibarghan camp: “I was a witness when an American soldier broke one prisoner’s neck and poured acid on others. The Americans did whatever they wanted. We had no power to stop them.”" Btw, you could also watch "The platoon" movie, if you think that your soldiers 'do not rape, pillage, plunder, or murder. '

source, please...
My mother always told me, 'do not believe everything you here.' Therefore I am always skeptical to some degree depending on the source of what I hear.
If this was not recorded on tape or video, its most possible that it was made up all together by an anti-american publication. And if it was, im sure the guy who said he saw these things was anti-american himself and just wants to promote the feeling among his arab or Islamic peers. To say this would not be the first time is an understatement.

As for the movie, I have seen it many times. the rule is that American soldiers dont do those things, but of course, every rule has an exception. If those crimes are reported a soldier can be courtmarshaled. In the remote Jungles of vietnam it would be hard to courtmarshal such a case successfully because of lack of evidence. Also the Vietnam war was VERY long, so the men had plenty of time to become sexually frustrated and be tempted to do such horrible things, especially after being desensitized by a tour of duty of hard fighting and combat. That is why those things happened. But I hope the movie wasnt misleading. Such incidents probably were few and far between. Most soldiers were able to relieve their sexual tension with whores.
Anyway, any confrontaion in Iraq would be in close courters and would be relatively brief, compared to Vietnam. So I could garuntee no rape by American soldiers. Murder is hard to define in war, but in the sense of senseless slaughter of civilians, like something Mongols of Ghengis Kahn would do, Americans have never done such things and it is rediculous to think they would now.
I think most are forgetting that it is in Americas best interest to win the hearts of the native population. American soldiers are great at this. Our soldiers are internationally reknowned for their generosity, since WWI to present that has been the case. All the local children know that the quickest source to chocolate is the nearest American soldier

Kman

	17-09-2002 15:49									#78
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Serb, actually yes, I am very consistent in my libertarianism.

	17-09-2002 16:59									#79
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: All the local children know that the quickest source to chocolate is the nearest American soldier

It's a rather naive soldier indeed that hands out gifts to local kids. However nice it may seem to act like Mother Teresa, in no time your vehicle or mobile TOC or unit will be swamped with children all demanding crap from you. All while your trying to at least have some semblance of being tactical. Furthermore, you now have to watch to make sure that nothing gets stolen by the kids, and your now endangering the kids lives. No one in Kosovo(I assume it's the same elsewhere) with any common sense gives kids anything. This still doesn't stop them from congregating on your vehicle, but it at least discourages them.

	17-09-2002 20:16									#80
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Serb I knew someday this link will be usefull. Have a nice reading DinoDoc: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/j.../afgh-j17.shtml

I know that being from Russia you may not know what an unbiased and credible news source is, so I'll cut you a little slack. I will however tell you that the World Socialist Web Site doesn't qualify.

	17-09-2002 22:34									#81
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I know that being from Russia you may not know what an unbiased and credible news source is, so I'll cut you a little slack. I will however tell you that the World Socialist Web Site doesn't qualify.

he wouldn't......

	17-09-2002 23:53									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman err... actually Saddam scratched and clawed his own way into power. The US has nothing to do with him becoming dictator. I dont like Saddam, but I dont underestimate his abilities, and neither should you. here is an ok source for a Saddam Bio, i just got it off the first thing on a google search: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1100529.stm However, the US did 'support' his regime early on because he was enemies with Iran, and as the old axiam goes, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. How would Saddam further the spread of ISlam, and why would America care? Islam is the fastest growing religion in our country and thats great. I think you are refering to radical Islam, and if that be the case, then again, we were choosing the lesser of two evils at the time. Not a single change??? Again I question your news source. Mine is the BBC (they have such cool accents) and I have seen numerous stories on the betterment of so many peoples lives. Of course not everyone is happy, but no one ever is, and alot of people are upset or disappointed. But I am quite certain there have been significant changes for the better since the Taliban was deposed. To deny this is rediculous. Ill get some sources later, if you wish, but I havent the time presently. No, I havent lived under sanctions. Let me ask you somethn. Are you aware of why there are sanctions on Iraq for such items as medicines??? Those sacntions were added after Saddam expelled the arms inspectors, because without the arms inspectors in the country there would be no way to keep tabs on Saddams WoMD manufacturing. This being a major threat to the US we have to hinder his progress as best as possible by denying him access to these products. It is very, very sad indeed. But it is ALL Saddams fault. He never had to kick the UN inspectors out, and he can always invite them back at anytime. But he doesnt cause he can care less about his own people and cares more about his precious WoMD. Would care less about our interests, like say, Great Brittain or Japan or Canada or Austrailia,ets,ets ? Please. Our closest allies are democracies and they all care about Americas interests just like we care about theirs because this is an interconnected world. We are all on the same team. But if you wish to believe your fanciful little conspiracy theories of the evil corporate Americans then go right ahead. Though I can recall many occasions that the US has backed dictators, because, again, they were the lessor of two evils, I cannot recall a single time the US has deliberately placed a dictator in power. But AMAZINGLY, I can recall many, many times where we have set up democracies, and it has worked out in our best interests almost everytime, with the exception of a few. Such would include the Philopeans, Japan and Germany (two of some of the most prosperous nations today, may I add ), Cuba (that was ok for about 50 years, until the communists seized power), and alot more. Well, if the rest of the world, at least in your opinion, blows things out of proportion, that doesnt mean its still not blowing things way out of proportion, its just doing it on a large scale [quote]How are they caused by the US army? IIRC, 1 in 3 people will get cancer (at least in the US, i dunno if that is a world wide stat). Thats alot, and cancer happens almost regaurdless of the standard of living. Of course in more developed nations where there are restrictions on carcinoginic chemicals that helps make the cancer rates drop when compared to developing nations that use pesticides and such like DDT that has been long banned in many developed nations. Plus better water quality, etc helps too. I dont understand why you mention radiation? The cancer rates have been soaring worldwide. There are thousands of factors that could explain this. It is ignorant to blame it on depleted Uranium ammunition. The former Yugoslavia, Im sure I dont have to remind you, is in relatively close proximity to Cherenobyle... If depleted uranium is so radioactive, then how do explain the normal occurance of cancer in the Tank crews of MI-A1 abrhams who work next to an entire cache of the stuff??? Yeah, Im sure NATO bombed a hospital and school to destroy a weapons cache . You shouldnt forget, either, that the US is only one member of NATO... Im not denying that innocents died by the hand of NATO...but...no...you are right... we should of let the Serbs continue to ethnically clense thousands... what were we thinking??? I read a report once that Elvis was spotted at the local seven-eleven... Ya know if this ever happened, AL JAzeera and countless anti-American publications around the world would of been all over it. But if one believes something so strongly, another can do nothing to change that. Kman

Kramerman, sorry if I rant too much but my life has created a wholly different world-view than your own. I am not saying this negatively nor positively but just stating this as an important factor which bases my opinions. I have lost friends that year (1999) and I do not hold much respect for your policy of fighting fire with fire.

And I was thinking or radical Islam (I hope I didn't make too many enemies because of my previous post )

Now that I look back, I don't see what kind of point I was trying to make about the Taliban... but I still think much time has to pass for things to trully change there.

You cannot say that shipment of such neccessary things as medicines is entirerly Saddam's fault. This is ridiculous = people intentionally died for others' political aims. And by this I do not totally blame the West - he made a very stupid decision. But who the hell keeps tabs on you and your power? And now that you start scrapping every single treaty (such as Kyoto and the one about biological weapons, this was pre-2001) and even undermind UN.

quote: But if you wish to believe your fanciful little conspiracy theories of the evil corporate Americans then go right ahead.

Of course I will! :nice: I have my reasons I'd rather not discuss - I am low on energy at the moment and do not wish to enter yet another row...

quote: How are they caused by the US army? IIRC, 1 in 3 people will get cancer (at least in the US, i dunno if that is a world wide stat). Thats alot, and cancer happens almost regaurdless of the standard of living. Of course in more developed nations where there are restrictions on carcinoginic chemicals that helps make the cancer rates drop when compared to developing nations that use pesticides and such like DDT that has been long banned in many developed nations. Plus better water quality, etc helps too. I dont understand why you mention radiation? The cancer rates have been soaring worldwide. There are thousands of factors that could explain this. It is ignorant to blame it on depleted Uranium ammunition. The former Yugoslavia, Im sure I dont have to remind you, is in relatively close proximity to Cherenobyle... If depleted uranium is so radioactive, then how do explain the normal occurance of cancer in the Tank crews of MI-A1 abrhams who work next to an entire cache of the stuff???

sigh... If you rely on your BBC News you will see the huge figures of the British soldiers who recently started a row with their Department of Defence on the basis what damage DU has caused to them. Maybe this just slipped you.

Also Chernobyl happened in 1986, and we were relativelly safelly protected from it. No abnormal change in cancer rates has happened until the Balkan wars.

Please visit this relativelly unbiased site for more info on DU and see what UN says about the Balkans:

http://balkans.unep.ch/

And if it so "safe" to use, how come that western governments have suggested to help us clean p your mess? Please do not tell me you'd eat a vegetable grown in a field near where a DU shell exploded. Very humane and democratic.

quote: Yeah, Im sure NATO bombed a hospital and school to destroy a weapons cache . You shouldnt forget, either, that the US is only one member of NATO... Im not denying that innocents died by the hand of NATO...but...no...you are right... we should of let the Serbs continue to ethnically clense thousands... what were we thinking???

Believe it or not, you did destroy hospitals and schools.
Visit my sources (as i cannot upload personnal mempory to the computer):
*http://www.bhhrg.org/serbia/serbia1999-3/wardamage.htm (assesment on war damage on Serbia in 1999)
*http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/8_health.htm (damage to Yugoslavia's health systems in 1999)
*http://csf.colorado.edu/agfrank/nat...o/msg00128.html (is it within law to bomb civilians)
*http://www.hip-petrohemija.com/eng/history1.htm (a civilian factory which was a fundamental part of Northern Serbian economy, nothing to do with military)
*http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/sbreach.htm (how NATO's war against Yugoslavia breached international law)

You can find many many more sites, all pointing out the vast damage you caused, and no globalist views like the BBC

And the US is not just a "one member of NATO" it is the central leader of the alliance with a permanent membership in the UN Security Council, not to mention with the biggest and most notorious war machinery in the world.

	29-09-2002 11:59									#83
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Jan 03 -- because it will be nice and cool for the poor grunts in the biochem warfare gear.