12-09-2002 15:14									#1
	End game hoard of artillery Inflate your Upload Space

Im sick of my end games having a bizillion artillery running around.

I think every time units are captured they should have a chance of being destroyed.

I also think Railroads and Art. make home defense way to easy. Every piece of Art. in my nation can pummel an attacker anywhere, instantly. Its too easy. Not sure what could be done about that.

Ghengis Thom

	12-09-2002 15:23									#2
	Re: End game hoard of artillery Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ghengis Thom Im sick of my end games having a bizillion artillery running around. I think every time units are captured they should have a chance of being destroyed. I also think Railroads and Art. make home defense way to easy. Every piece of Art. in my nation can pummel an attacker anywhere, instantly. Its too easy. Not sure what could be done about that. Ghengis Thom

Why don't you keep what you need and disband the rest?
It's a quick and easy way to build cultural buildings in
captured cities.

	12-09-2002 16:30									#3
	Re: End game hoard of artillery Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Ghengis Thom Im sick of my end games having a bizillion artillery running around. I think every time units are captured they should have a chance of being destroyed. I also think Railroads and Art. make home defense way to easy. Every piece of Art. in my nation can pummel an attacker anywhere, instantly. Its too easy. Not sure what could be done about that. Ghengis Thom

Well you're right on the first part when you're playing warlord style like I do you often find yourself with sooo many units it's very annoying to move them all around and not knowing what to do with them (almost all enemies are more or less down).

The RR factor should stay like it is now as you must have an advantage on your home territory. Think about in history the defender almost all time had an advantage over the attacker concerning territory knowledge and being able to transport troops to the front quickly using the home RR-system this is reflected by Civ III. Also this give a smaller or tech-behind civ the chance of survival against stronger neighbours otherwise they would be just overtaken.

	12-09-2002 16:35									#4
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Although, annoying and tedious to move they come in handy as "occupation forces" for me all the time. You need a lot of unit in order to keep cities from flipping back and that's where I use them among any absolute units that I have sitting around. Gradually, I disband them and build different improvements!

So long...

	12-09-2002 16:38									#5
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer Although, annoying and tedious to move they come in handy as "occupation forces" for me all the time. You need a lot of unit in order to keep cities from flipping back and that's where I use them among any absolute units that I have sitting around. Gradually, I disband them and build different improvements!

Pioneer, the arty does not count as far as the flipping is concerned...

	12-09-2002 16:42									#6
	Re: Re: End game hoard of artillery Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Galvatron The RR factor should stay like it is now as you must have an advantage on your home territory. Think about in history the defender almost all time had an advantage over the attacker concerning territory knowledge and being able to transport troops to the front quickly using the home RR-system this is reflected by Civ III. Also this give a smaller or tech-behind civ the chance of survival against stronger neighbours otherwise they would be just overtaken.

That was one thing I liked in CTP2.
You had the RR-System letting you move 5 Tiles per MP so they were just better Roads.
Implemented into Civ 3 it would still give the Defender a distinct advantage over the attacker, cos they would be able to move even Units with 1 MP over a distance of 5 Tiles regardless of Terrain, whereas even the 2-MP-Units of the Attacker could often be moved just one Tile because of the Terrain.

	12-09-2002 19:24									#7
	Re: End game hoard of artillery Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Ghengis Thom Im sick of my end games having a bizillion artillery running around.

Since each artillery is worth 20 shields, why don't you disband them to rush a market/temple?

	12-09-2002 19:26									#8
	Re: Re: Re: End game hoard of artillery Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST That was one thing I liked in CTP2. You had the RR-System letting you move 5 Tiles per MP so they were just better Roads. Implemented into Civ 3 it would still give the Defender a distinct advantage over the attacker, cos they would be able to move even Units with 1 MP over a distance of 5 Tiles regardless of Terrain, whereas even the 2-MP-Units of the Attacker could often be moved just one Tile because of the Terrain.

It would also force you to think in terms of regional defense forces, instead of clustering all your forces into one area and sending them out as needed. It would just add a little more strategy to it all.

	12-09-2002 19:38									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

---Agreed. It was the original Civ Net that changed Railroads to be multiples of 10, rather than unlimited (caused problems in multiplayer games). The single-player versions, though, stick to the unlimited distance. I think tonight, I'll fidget with the editor and reduce it to a multiple of 5 or 6, to put a little life back in the later game. It's just too easy to sling around 50 Artillery from one side of the continent to another and instantly turn any attacker to pudding.

	12-09-2002 20:01									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Nosferum I think tonight, I'll fidget with the editor and reduce it to a multiple of 5 or 6, to put a little life back in the later game.

Good luck! That's been hardcoded and can't be changed. In fact there's nothing you can alter regarding railroads except for having a 0 commerce bonus. This will prevent the construction of a road, which will prevent the building of a railroad. That's all you can do.

	12-09-2002 23:14									#11
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Pioneer, the arty does not count as far as the flipping is concerned...

What? Why has that fact escaped my attention? After all I rarely had a city flip back and I thought that Arty was the reason!


So long...

	12-09-2002 23:21									#12
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer What? Why has that fact escaped my attention? After all I rarely had a city flip back and I thought that Arty was the reason!

Nope, I think it's something else... in another thread, you mentioned you modded your artillery to have a non-zero defense... I guess it makes them count then. Zero-defense units do not count, AFAIK... I did not know you were talking about a modded arty. But the vanilla version artillery can't be used as a military police, that's for sure.

	13-09-2002 00:34									#13
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Back OT:

Disband in captured cities... depending on your traits, you can get cultural buildings built in the turn of capture, thus dramatically reducing the chance of a flip.

Combine this with commie poprushing (if religious), and you can drive down foreign pop and rushbuild temples, marketplaces, and courthouses in no time.

	13-09-2002 01:06									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Back OT: Disband in captured cities... depending on your traits, you can get cultural buildings built in the turn of capture, thus dramatically reducing the chance of a flip. Combine this with commie poprushing (if religious), and you can drive down foreign pop and rushbuild temples, marketplaces, and courthouses in no time.

These are good ideas. But Im not saying I cant figure out what to do with them all. Once I have railroads then any number are useful.
Im saying since they never go away through the ages that I have so many that the game becomes easy.

And its not a matter of Difficulty level. Once I hit railroad general know whether Im winning or not. I would like the end game to mantain some challenge and I think Art. is a big part of why its so easy.


CptBlood

	13-09-2002 01:55									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Ghengis Thom And its not a matter of Difficulty level. Once I hit railroad general know whether Im winning or not. I would like the end game to mantain some challenge and I think Art. is a big part of why its so easy.

That's rather ironic, since I've seen a lot of players comment on how useless they thought Artillery was. There's been a number of discussions about that, especially by those wanting lethal bombardment.

	13-09-2002 02:29									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No, I understand. Massive numbers of anything are overpowering... Knights, Cavs, Tanks, MA, and yes, Arty.

Don;t foget, this is not a wargame... have fun trying to balance your cities and units with your objectives. If you're telling me you are achieving every objective of which you can conceive, and that you still have a bizillion Arty running around, then I bow to you.

	13-09-2002 14:14									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Theseus No, I understand. Massive numbers of anything are overpowering... Knights, Cavs, Tanks, MA, and yes, Arty.

True but I dont mind that any of the others are overpowering, because they die. Artys never die, they are at best just traded back and forth.

quote: Don;t foget, this is not a wargame... have fun trying to balance your cities and units with your objectives. If you're telling me you are achieving every objective of which you can conceive, and that you still have a bizillion Arty running around, then I bow to you.

Well, my objective is to win. But by the late era's I already know if Im going to win and Im just going through the motions to offical register my score on the list (to compare to my other games). Early on I love micro managing workers and population but later I have so many I auto all my workers and pop control. Eventually my empire gets so big while conquering I stop caring what the new cities are building after temple/cath.

I kinda wandered off topic but the point is the end game gets messy and for me a big part of it is all the artillery.

Ghengis Thom

	13-09-2002 18:59									#18
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I don't understand about the complain in this thread! In my last game, after the war, I have to disband 281 artilleries, 120 cavalries, 79 infantries, 13 tanks (I have a total of 25 tanks), .... Basically, I kept exactly 12 tanks (which I upgraded to modern armor a couple centuries later) to protect my empire and disband all of my units to build the mass transit in every cities of size 14 or above.

	14-09-2002 10:03									#19
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I have never had more than 20-30 arties, nor 120 of anything. It must be a bugger to manage them all.

	14-09-2002 15:24									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The secret to not having so bloody many units or cities is


PLAY ON A SMALLER MAP

	14-09-2002 19:38									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Moonsinger I don't understand about the complain in this thread! In my last game, after the war, I have to disband 281 artilleries, 120 cavalries, 79 infantries, 13 tanks (I have a total of 25 tanks), .... Basically, I kept exactly 12 tanks (which I upgraded to modern armor a couple centuries later) to protect my empire and disband all of my units to build the mass transit in every cities of size 14 or above.

12 tanks is a pretty small force for that time. Didn't the AI try to bully you aorund after the mass disbanding?