12-09-2002 15:48									#1
	Unofficial: Our Starting Build Strategy Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Whilst trying to think queues for our bases (so far there have been no demands from Ministers - come on guys, make my life easier - I want to have to make compromises, not to actually think for myself ), I realised that they are highly dependent on our general strategy for the game. The way I see it, there are several ways we could go in the very early game:

1. REX/ICS - build loadsa CPs and some Formers. The build queues would feature very little but these things until a certain base had settled everything around it, and then it could change to infrastructure. One option for the general build queue that I like is Maniac's - we build a CP, then send it off with the current Base's garrison. We build a new garrison for the base, another CP, then send these two off etc. This way the new base starts off defended. Should we do this for frontier cities (risk of worms), or only interior cities, less at risk of worms? Or should we build a second garrison first and send THAT with the CP, leaving the first base defended?

2. Explorers - build a few more Scouts to scavenge as many Pods as possible, scout out all the possible good base sites early and provide a way of attacking worms before they reach our bases.

3. CP and Former, then infrastructure - what we have planned in the short term for New Apolytonia, where we are building Recycling Tanks after the Formers are finished there. This would carry over to other bases as well, so we get off at least one more base and former before starting anything for that base itself

How important is ICS to our starting strategy here? Do we want lotsa bases, and do we wnat them NOW, or is the threat of worms enough that we should build more slowly, making sure each base is well defended. And can we compromise on buildings and SPs for more bases, allowing the AI to get ahead with its internal development?

All comments welcomed.

	12-09-2002 16:37									#2
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i like the idea of FIRST making a 2nd unit and then the CP after that a scout and yet an other unit stack. this way we get out of each base 2 other bases and a scout. after that we can start building infra and formers. i think we can wait awhile before building formers (building more CP/scouts/etcetc) anf first build atleast two CP per base. the rest of the idea i probably support anyways

	12-09-2002 16:40									#3
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I don't really get what you mean DBTS. Could you please post a build queue ā la Formers/Rover/CP...

	12-09-2002 17:05									#4
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Maniac - it sounds like he means your idea of CP, send out existing Scout with CP, leaving the old base undefended until it builds a new Scout. The only difference is that he wants 2 Scouts built before we send on with the CP, so that the old base stillk has a defender.

	12-09-2002 17:56									#5
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sorry for the screwed up post maniac but MWIA is right. after i think we dont have to build more then two CP per base for now anyways. after building the CPs and the defenders for them THEN we can start building formers and stuff

	12-09-2002 18:36									#6
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Thanks for the explanation MWIA!

No formers before building two CPs? IMO that would seriously slow down our expansion. I think it's worth first building a former so it can build forests/farms and a road system connecting all our bases. So although first building a former would slow down CP production in the beginning, the extra terraformation and roads provided by the former more than make up for that initial delay.

	12-09-2002 20:10									#7
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By instinct, I don't like waiting on infrastructure, but DBTS and others are advocating up to six bases before we even start to build it. I personally have never benchmarked early development to determine optimum build-times for rec tanks and children's creches. Does anyone know any good archived threads on the topic that might include actual data from games?

	12-09-2002 21:11									#8
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i think PER base we can have 2 CP and then start the infra IF we build formers first or after i dont care but just in the beginning i want to have some CP fast and i think 2 is a nice number to begin with without holding up infra to long

	12-09-2002 21:30									#9
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I like the first idea. We should build bases and expand swiftly. We can work on infrastructure later, since human players always eventually surpass AI infrastructure anyway. This does not necessarily mean we should not build an SP however. At least one of the early SP is essential.

Also, I have a variation on your theme of sending scouts/garrisons with the CPs for early defense. We could just escort the CPs with the same unity rover or scout until the city builds it's first defense unit, or just send them alone if they're going to an area that does not have alot of fungus growth. The first defense unit could be rushed on every new base, however we would need the support of the Director in charge of spending.

This is a strategy I have used in my simulations. It has proven to be effective, but I am open to opposition, and other ideas.

	12-09-2002 23:04									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Diablero The first defense unit could be rushed on every new base, however we would need the support of the Director in charge of spending.

Well, IMHO the biggest benefit of the system I proposed is not that the CP is protected from mindworm attack, but rather that the new base no longer needs to rush a defence unit. It can immediately rush a former instead, giving a serious boost to that base its early growth.

	13-09-2002 01:10									#11
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So as a kind of revised options list, it looks like you guys like this option:

4.Base is founded by CP and Scout from the older Base. Rushes Formers, then builds a Scout and CP. The new Scout and CP go off and found a new Base, that then repeats the above.

My above numbered options stand, if they haven't exactly been supported in posts by anyone.

Otherwise, it seems that Diablero favours option 1.

One question Diablero: would you have the single scout from the old base escort the new CP until another garrison is built at this new base, upon which the old scout would return to the old base? Is this what you mean? If so this is similar to Maniac's original idea, laeaving the old base undefended for some time.

	13-09-2002 03:43									#12
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Option 3, then.

	13-09-2002 04:16									#13
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Your option 4 sounds good. Sending the scout with is a good way to keep up security with a great speed of expansion.

But if we send the scout with the CP we must watch out for drones in the old city. I donīt know the exact size but i think that a 4-Citizen city (Lal) without police revolts, after the first effeciency-stair downwards i think it becomes a 3-citizen base. (This figures arenīt proved, too lazy)
That means later on we only can send out the scout with the CP if the base has only two citzens.
Riots will not take place in bases we just built, but in bases that did some infrastructure before and then have grown , weīll have to build the second scout before the CP( if these bases are considered to build CP s)

Ok itīs a little problem, but it hasnt caused damege to mention it

	13-09-2002 05:02									#14
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt 4.Base is founded by CP and Scout from the older Base. Rushes Formers, then builds a Scout and CP. The new Scout and CP go off and found a new Base, that then repeats the above.

maybe not rush the formers, but definitely formers above all else