12-09-2002 20:35									#1
	Quick Quest: what else is needed for MPP? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Quick question-- what am I missing? What else is needed for MPP than embassy in other civ? MPP is not yet on F4, diplomacy screen. Tech or Era requirement??

Thanks

-- PF

	12-09-2002 20:48									#2
	Re: Quick Quest: what else is needed for MPP? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by planetfall Quick question-- what am I missing? What else is needed for MPP than embassy in other civ? MPP is not yet on F4, diplomacy screen. Tech or Era requirement?? Thanks -- PF

Nationalism

	12-09-2002 20:48									#3
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You can make MPP deals when you discover Nationalism, but NOT before. But, if the AI has Nationalism, he can offer YOU the MPP even if you don't have Nationalism.

However, you can make ROP's after Writing and embassies.


Hope this helps.

	12-09-2002 20:51									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Sovereign You can make MPP deals when you discover Nationalism, but NOT before. But, if the AI has Nationalism, he can offer YOU the MPP even if you don't have Nationalism. However, you can make ROP's after Writing and embassies. Hope this helps.

IMHO, that needs to change. I think it's silly a nation can sign one without knowing how to make one. Kinda like being able to research and build carriers before knowing how to fly a bomber.

	12-09-2002 20:55									#5
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Yes, thanks. It is nice to know how the game really works.

My guess was beginning of Indust Era. Encycopedia did not spell out the requirement under definition of MPP.

I don't like ROP, unless I set up an one way ROP. I have nationalism philosophy before nationalism tech.

-- PF

	12-09-2002 21:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 IMHO, that needs to change. I think it's silly a nation can sign one without knowing how to make one. Kinda like being able to research and build carriers before knowing how to fly a bomber.

May be when you sign the MPP, the more advance nation would like to share some of its knowledge with the lesser one. For example, during the Gulf war, the US has a pact with Saudi (not really a MPP, but some what similar). Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that Saudi doesn't know how to build F15, but its know how to maintain and to fly one (because the US share with them that knowledge).

	12-09-2002 21:32									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Moonsinger May be when you sign the MPP, the more advance nation would like to share some of its knowledge with the lesser one. For example, during the Gulf war, the US has a pact with Saudi (not really a MPP, but some what similar). Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that Saudi doesn't know how to build F15, but its know how to maintain and to fly one (because the US share with them that knowledge).

I fail to see the point you are trying to make.


And that was more like a Military Alliance then an MPP.

	12-09-2002 22:36									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 I fail to see the point you are trying to make.

May be that was a bad example. Let me try another example: Way back in civ2, CTP or some other game (sorry, I don't remember the exact name), one player can give/sell units to another player. In this case, even if you don't have technology to build tank, I could give/sell tanks to you and show you how to use them. Basically in this example, it's within my power to sell/give tank units to you. For the same token, if a more advance civ decides to offer the MPP to the lesser civ, it's within its power to do so.

	13-09-2002 03:03									#9
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I still don't see your point, but you can no longer give/sell units to AI.

	13-09-2002 08:28									#10
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The point is that I could give anyone a device that they did not understand how to use. Better yet we could sell it soemthing it had no use for. In Civ3 you are correct we can no longer sell units. Not having the skill or tech to make are own MPP or RoP should not disallow one that has that skill to do it, only from initiating that transaction. Me, I don't care either way. I just understoood the point they were trying to make.

	13-09-2002 18:44									#11
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Finally, someone can understand me. Thanks! That was exactly what I was saying.

	13-09-2002 18:54									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Moonsinger May be that was a bad example. Let me try another example: Way back in civ2, CTP or some other game (sorry, I don't remember the exact name), one player can give/sell units to another player. In this case, even if you don't have technology to build tank, I could give/sell tanks to you and show you how to use them. Basically in this example, it's within my power to sell/give tank units to you. For the same token, if a more advance civ decides to offer the MPP to the lesser civ, it's within its power to do so.

But this isn't Civ2 or Civ1. You can't buy/sell units.

I still don't think you should be able to make a MPP with someone who still is researching gunpowder.

I return to my original example, that you can build carriers before researching how to fly. Something like that was easily corrected in the editor (I put carrier in advanced flight).

It's something I thing should be change, either everyone is on the ball or no one is.

This is one of the reasons I gave up on building embassies, because why should I waste my money... let the AI do it. That kind of exploit should be fixed so that in order to have MAs and RoP both civs must an embassy in each other's capital.

	13-09-2002 19:20									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 This is one of the reasons I gave up on building embassies, because why should I waste my money... let the AI do it. That kind of exploit should be fixed so that in order to have MAs and RoP both civs must an embassy in each other's capital.

Well, I don't find that the AI does it often enough. By end game, perhaps only half have bothered to set up an embassy with the player. I think, at least, that both parties should have nationalism. If they both needed embassies, you could find yourself waiting for years for the AI to do that, thus delaying military action.

I agree about it being ridiculous that carriers come before flight. I think you and I have the exact same mod running

	13-09-2002 22:27									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Wormwood Well, I don't find that the AI does it often enough. By end game, perhaps only half have bothered to set up an embassy with the player. I think, at least, that both parties should have nationalism. If they both needed embassies, you could find yourself waiting for years for the AI to do that, thus delaying military action. I agree about it being ridiculous that carriers come before flight. I think you and I have the exact same mod running

I know.... . It's just somthing I wish could be improved on. I'm not going to rant about that... because I'm too busy getting Firaxis increasing that bomber range limit .

As for the Carriers... I can't believe they overlooked that one.