24-12-2000 07:54									#1
	This business of extra techs at start. Full PM-box? Change here!

Okay, just a while ago people were explaining the business of how people end up with extra techs at the start of a game.

As I recall it, the main deal was, if you were about third or fourth civ on the list, you were likely to end up with poorer territory, and thus were given an extra tech or eighteen just to make up for the poor start.

The impression I got was that civs were taken in order from the list, and if you played as someone way down on the list, there were unlikely to be many people below you.

Now, in this present game of mine, the Balhiri, whom most of you know as Romans, are first on the list. But when we started, I find us in vast areas of desert, with a bit of plain and hill thrown in. as well as a few mountain ranges. We were given a couple of extra techs at the beginning.

But my understanding of the situation said we shouldn't have the last and poorest choice. Or am I wrong?

Or maybe the whole world was so poor that everybody got a bad deal?

(However it works, using my vast skill and ability, I've managed to pull ahead of everybody, thanks to Leo's Workshop. )

I'd just like a little better understanding of why the game opened like this.

Jim W

	24-12-2000 17:47									#2
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Jim - Many abysmal or delicious situations for the settlers at 4000BC appear to have no apparent reason. In life there are no guarantees about anything and Civ 2 is no exception! Perhaps this is one of the reasons we all keep playing - the sheer randomness of some events. Yes, the Romans can have some awful starts too.

There are many starting situations, which seem to defy any logic or reason! Aztecs on a 20 square barren island with no techs - or the Vikings with eight techs sharing their continent with the Spanish some distance away. The overall trend is the important factor to remember.

The game places a high priority on food and population. If your 21 squares at the start are "green" the AI will think this is great. You will receive little or no science - unless the Mongols are sharing your grassland. Conversely, you may start in mixed terrain. There is a gold mountain, some woods, a whale in a lake and only a few grassland squares! The AI thinks - better give some science out here.

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SG (2)


[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited December 24, 2000).]

	24-12-2000 20:15									#3
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Just an aenecdotal observation, much along the lines of what Scouse Gits presented, there seems to be a 'super premium' on rivered tiles - lots of them with grassland, few if any technology bonuses.

	24-12-2000 21:05									#4
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Cam - Your observation is very true! If you begin on or in view of a river your initial tech count will be low - except when bad guys are around the corner.

However, there have been starts which have yielded some good techs with a river system only a few squares away from the first location from the settlers.

The point which needs clarification is how far the AI "looks" at the hinterland terrain before awarding science.

This is guesswork - but I feel it is only the 21 original squares + one beyond!?

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SG (2)

	25-12-2000 03:28									#5
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As I recall it, the immediate area in which I found myself was mostly desert, surrounded by ocean on many sides. What I ended up with is a capital which is one of those "canal cities" where you can go from one side of the peninsula to the other by entering the city on one side and exiting on the other. (Of course, if you're carrying anything, you have to stop in the city to make sure nothing "jumps ship" on you.)

But back to the main point of the post, I guess all I can say is that it's one of those things, right?

Jim W