14-09-2002 20:48									#1
	Aircraft... Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Will we have the ability to make airplanes move like they did in civ 2 when ptw comes out? I mean.. have them move like Civ 2 planes WITHOUT being attacked by ground units!.

	14-09-2002 21:25									#2
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No. If you liked them as they were in Civ2, there are threads discussing how to change them in the Editor.

They work quite fine the way they are, though everyone who played civ2 had some time making the transition. A major transition/surprise for me was realizing that Cruise Missiles do NOT function like aircraft.

	14-09-2002 21:31									#3
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I did not have any problem with ground fire as long as it is the WW2 planes. Jets and Stealth, need missiles to be shot down (or planes).

	15-09-2002 00:46									#4
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Stealth planes can be shot down by common gunfire

you just need to be REALLLLY lucky

(like a single warrior beating off a thousand modern armors)

	15-09-2002 02:16									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe No. If you liked them as they were in Civ2, there are threads discussing how to change them in the Editor. They work quite fine the way they are, though everyone who played civ2 had some time making the transition. A major transition/surprise for me was realizing that Cruise Missiles do NOT function like aircraft.

what? you mean cruise missiles cant be used as scouts anymore?

	15-09-2002 17:42									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe A major transition/surprise for me was realizing that Cruise Missiles do NOT function like aircraft.

Indeed CruiseMissiles are pretty stupid in CivIII. They're using the Road and Railroad.

	15-09-2002 17:52									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot Stealth planes can be shot down by common gunfire you just need to be REALLLLY lucky (like a single warrior beating off a thousand modern armors)

sounds like pretty good odds to me
J/K

	15-09-2002 22:32									#8
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Just for the record, I did not mean literally you can not shot them down with gun fire, miracles could happen. For all practical purposes you can not shoot down jets or stealth with hand guns (rifles). The AA guns are represented by Sams, not riflemen. A case can be made that SAMs can not even shoot down stealth aircraft as the radar can not "see" them.

	16-09-2002 00:43									#9
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Well, except for that one shot down in Bosnia (Serbia?). Stealth aircraft do give off the occasional radar return, just not enough to be considered anything more (by ground controllers ) than natural phenomenon.

	16-09-2002 01:53									#10
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by CivilopediaCity Indeed CruiseMissiles are pretty stupid in CivIII. They're using the Road and Railroad.

What on earth do you expect them to use. Hint: when they are used in attack they don't use the roads, but when you move them around without firing they do - do you expect people to rebase cruise missiles by launching them and letting them land at the new base? No - they use ground based transport.

	16-09-2002 01:56									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Wormwood Well, except for that one shot down in Bosnia (Serbia?). Stealth aircraft do give off the occasional radar return, just not enough to be considered anything more (by ground controllers ) than natural phenomenon.

On the other hand, they can be tracked quite accurately using the network of transmitters for mobile phones, as was demonstrated last year. I doubt anyone has a targetting system based on the information yet, but I guess it is technically possible.

	16-09-2002 05:59									#12
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quote: Originally posted by CivilopediaCity Indeed CruiseMissiles are pretty stupid in CivIII. They're using the Road and Railroad.

That's perfectly logical. Cruise missiles frequently use a mobile launcher like a truck, which again uses road/railroad. The cruise missile is not airborne when you move it, but becomes airborne once you hit the bombard button.

	16-09-2002 06:43									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Fredric Drum That's perfectly logical. Cruise missiles frequently use a mobile launcher like a truck, which again uses road/railroad. The cruise missile is not airborne when you move it, but becomes airborne once you hit the bombard button.

The animation when you "walk" the Cruise missile on a road looks like the missile is actually flying .

	21-09-2002 17:28									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Fredric Drum That's perfectly logical. Cruise missiles frequently use a mobile launcher like a truck, which again uses road/railroad. The cruise missile is not airborne when you move it, but becomes airborne once you hit the bombard button.

Yes, you guys are right! They are replaced by train or by rocket-launcher. But there has to be a special InterfaceOption for CruisMissilles for the attack. And then they have a range of 10 or something. But for replacing it's indeed realistic that they're using Roads and RailRoads.

	21-09-2002 22:40									#15
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hi ,

in short the answer is NO , ....

its nearly impossible to get that in the game

have a nice day

	22-09-2002 16:58									#16
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quote: Originally posted by panag its nearly impossible to get that in the game

Why not????

	22-09-2002 17:52									#17
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

For example a helicopter that dont need to be in base every turn cannot fly over water.

	22-09-2002 19:44									#18
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quote: Originally posted by CivilopediaCity Why not????

hi ,

you would have to re-code everything that works with airunits , ..... and that is going to be costly , ..

and what is actually wrong with the way they work now , .....

have a nice day

	23-09-2002 02:33									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Wormwood Well, except for that one shot down in Bosnia (Serbia?). Stealth aircraft do give off the occasional radar return, just not enough to be considered anything more (by ground controllers ) than natural phenomenon.

That was to do with a French general leaking the flightpath details to the Yugoslavs, consequently a Mig was lying in wait. And people wonder why the Americans prefer to go it alone??

	23-09-2002 02:49									#20
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quote: Originally posted by spy14 That was to do with a French general leaking the flightpath details to the Yugoslavs, consequently a Mig was lying in wait. And people wonder why the Americans prefer to go it alone??

What's your sorce on this?

-Alech

	23-09-2002 03:15									#21
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Sounds like another internet story. Why would a Fr Gen know the flight path? Where would Yugos get a mig and a pilot? If is was true, the outrage here would be huge. The least you could expect is a courts martial for the general. More likely it was just luck. People refuse to except that strange things do in fact happen, even though they defy the odds.

	23-09-2002 03:54									#22
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isn't the stealth paint job, i.e. the RAM ( radar absorbing material ), affected by bad weather - esp. rain? IIRC there was some story a while back about rain damaging the RAM and making the stealth fighter a lot more obvious to radar?

	23-09-2002 17:51									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

AFAIK, the Stealth fighter shot down over Serbia was downed by random AAA fire.

-Alech

	23-09-2002 20:43									#24
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Stealth Aircraft can be detected by certain sensors, because the United States has only used thier up-to-date stealth craft on out-of-date systems there is little real "test" of these craft on modern systems.

The United States has systems that can detect stealth aircraft and Sweeden was the first to design a system that could defeat stealth. It is thought that most of Western Europe have these systems (Maybe Poland, Russia, PRC, and Japan too)

-Ocean

	23-09-2002 20:59									#25
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Re: defeating stealth
Something to do with cellular bandwidth (and satellites?). A stealth aircraft will "cast a shadow," so obviously there would have to be special equipment to detect it.

	23-09-2002 22:29									#26
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Calling it a 'Stealth' aircraft is a misnomer: the F-117 has an extremely small radar signature, yes, but it still leaves a vapour contrail, and there is enough heat from the engines to allow for a close range IR guided weapon to target it.

Technology is a wonderful thing, but over reliance on any one system will lead to disasters eventually. Even WW I sound ranging techniques that were used by the Canadian's at Vimy would very accurately spot a low flying F-117, enough to allow AAA to knock it down. The only thing is, no one uses such an old technology...

I used to check up on planes and stuff in Janes all the time and it never ceased to amaze me just how small a tactical advantage the latest changes within a technology give in combat.

In this game, I still think bombers, nuclear submarines and surface ships should be able to carry cruise missles, and that you can transport them in a boat between continents. After all, if they only have a range of 8, they only serve to cover choke points around your primary continent, and that's about it. I could easily live without the kill ability, but then it should be flexible enough to bother building...

But that's what the editor is for, eh ?


D.

	24-09-2002 10:59									#27
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Off original topic:

Another comment on stealth. Australia's Jindalee Radar Network can apparently detect current stealth aircraft see http://defence-data.com/features/fpage37.htm

On topic:

I hope they don't bring back Civ2 aircraft. But they do need to improve aircraft. Longer range, and need to take into account all anti aircraft units and facilities between base and target. This will then require pathing to allow avoidance of anti air...

It could get very complicated, very quickly.

	24-09-2002 13:18									#28
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Do you really want to sign up for more micromanagement?

	24-09-2002 14:50									#29
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just heard from the history channel that the radar signature is that of a bird.

	24-09-2002 18:05									#30
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quote: Originally posted by panag and what is actually wrong with the way they work now , .....

They're stupid in the attack. You can only launch them if you are in frontline with them