15-09-2002 07:51									#31
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What is interesting with history, is that there is one American war where the losers had gained considerable influence in rewriting and distorting history -- the Civil War.

Even today, too many white Southerners still get teary-eyed when they moan over the mythical "Lost Cause."
And they do not see it as treasonous behavior to fly the Confederate flag today over public buildings.

Of course, there were also too many Northerners who distorted the history of the Civil War, by either going along with the "Gone With the Wind" history of the Civil War, or going the complete opposite extreme in distorting the Civil War by portraying white Southerners as inhuman villains.

One of the distortions was that slavery never was an issue in American history, to the extent that it tore apart the nation.
That western territories were never tied to the issue of slavery. All part of the losers rewriting the history of the Civil War since the 1920's.

Usually it's the other way around -- the winners are in the more powerful position to rewrite history of a war. Not in this case, though.

	15-09-2002 08:04									#32
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well, sometimes it's just because the textbook sucks.

	15-09-2002 08:13									#33
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3rd grade history textbooks are funny.

The Civil War was very serious. It was fought over slavery and Abe Lincoln said the Gettysburg Address at the end. In conclusion, the Civil War was very serious.


Discussion questions:

Was the Civil War serious?

Would you feel nervous if you had to give the Gettysburg Address? Explain.


(That was from a Dave Barry column, btw, but it was almost exactly lik my 3)

Also they totally distort the colonial age. They act like the Pilgrims were the first people to settle the Americas, despite the fact that Jamestown already existed, and Spain had been in the Americas for ages. Then the pilgrims met Squanto, the friendly Indian. (IIRC the Indians attacked Jamestown a lot. Also, Squanto? ) Squanto shows them how to make corn, and then they have a feast with the Indians, which was the first Thanksgiving.

	15-09-2002 08:16									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior They act like the Pilgrims were the first people to settle the Americas, despite the fact that Jamestown already existed, and Spain had been in the Americas for ages.

And what about those natives who had been there for 10,000 years? Aren't they people too?

	15-09-2002 08:33									#35
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of course not, boris. they're not white.

	15-09-2002 08:33									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov And what about those natives who had been there for 10,000 years? Aren't they people too?

NO.


Charmon, I suggest you begin reading books outside of school on history. You'll still run into BS, but it won't be organized, and you will have an easier time spotting discrepancies when you have more than 1 (omnipotent) source. Stay out of the school Library, too. They don't buy books that contradict the politics of whoever is on the school board.

With my (2) more years of experience, I tell you that your teachers probably are just as apathetic as their students. They teach the party line, and get their paycheck.

MrFun, in my Region it is considered wrong to potray the soutern states as anything but viscious illiterate slave-drivers. Never mind the fact that few actually owned slaves, or that those who died in the civil war died for the rich. Most soldiers, north and south, fought for their homes and their honor. it is terribly unfortunate that the civil war lasted as long as it did and took so many lives. Had the Battle of Bull run continued in its early course, the war might have ended with losses in the hundreds. Sadly, the nation was ripped apart by four years of war costing 580,000 lives and irrevocable damage to the unity of the nation. As so often in history, it was the poor farmers and workers who died for the rich man's ideals.

	15-09-2002 09:14									#37
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Boris and MrFun both get the "rolleyes" treatment for one-trick ponyism.

	15-09-2002 09:23									#38
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How long was the shooting part of the American Revolution?

Why was there no 'American Revolution' in Quebec?

Weren't they under the same taxes, with perhaps more cause to rebel because of religious discrimination?

	15-09-2002 09:27									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker How long was the shooting part of the American Revolution? Why was there no 'American Revolution' in Quebec? Weren't they under the same taxes, with perhaps more cause to rebel because of religious discrimination?

Benedict Arnold tried to liberate Canada, but when he got there he discovered that the natives where French and wanted nothing to do with "whitey", and his jive-a*s revolution.

	15-09-2002 09:27									#40
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First: 1775-1783

Second: French

	15-09-2002 09:34									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun What is interesting with history, is that there is one American war where the losers had gained considerable influence in rewriting and distorting history -- the Civil War. Even today, too many white Southerners still get teary-eyed when they moan over the mythical "Lost Cause." And they do not see it as treasonous behavior to fly the Confederate flag today over public buildings. Of course, there were also too many Northerners who distorted the history of the Civil War, by either going along with the "Gone With the Wind" history of the Civil War, or going the complete opposite extreme in distorting the Civil War by portraying white Southerners as inhuman villains. One of the distortions was that slavery never was an issue in American history, to the extent that it tore apart the nation. That western territories were never tied to the issue of slavery. All part of the losers rewriting the history of the Civil War since the 1920's. Usually it's the other way around -- the winners are in the more powerful position to rewrite history of a war. Not in this case, though.

Somewhere there is a terrific website that contains transcriptions of speeches given by the major secessionists in the various southern state houses at the time when secession was being proposed. As a body of evidence they make it very clear that slavery was very much the major issue. Sometime I'll get around to running it down again.

The reason you more often here about the Civil War from "the losers" is that northerners have grown beyond the issue.

	15-09-2002 09:38									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior 3rd grade history textbooks are funny. The Civil War was very serious. It was fought over slavery and Abe Lincoln said the Gettysburg Address at the end. In conclusion, the Civil War was very serious. Discussion questions: Was the Civil War serious? Would you feel nervous if you had to give the Gettysburg Address? Explain. (That was from a Dave Barry column, btw, but it was almost exactly lik my 3) Also they totally distort the colonial age. They act like the Pilgrims were the first people to settle the Americas, despite the fact that Jamestown already existed, and Spain had been in the Americas for ages. Then the pilgrims met Squanto, the friendly Indian. (IIRC the Indians attacked Jamestown a lot. Also, Squanto? ) Squanto shows them how to make corn, and then they have a feast with the Indians, which was the first Thanksgiving.

So somebody answer my question: name the three ships that brought John Smith and the expedition of The Virginia Company to Virginia, and tell me where they landed.

	15-09-2002 11:00									#43
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The reason the war started was mainly because of slavery. The reason the men fought it was the southerners thought their rights were being trampled on and the northerners wanted to preserve the union. We can't forget about the Missouri Compromise and the Compromise of 1850. When the southerners were in danger of losing their slaves they made a huge deal about. That's why Kansas and Nebraska were pretty muich on fire in the 1850s. But I think the actual trigger of the war was Lincoln getting elected. Even though he said he would keep their right to own slaves if they didn't secede they were bent on war. If Douglass was elected-I don't know what would have happened, but of course Lincoln would've been a much better pres.

	15-09-2002 18:56									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove So somebody answer my question: name the three ships that brought John Smith and the expedition of The Virginia Company to Virginia,

The Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria.

quote: and tell me where they landed.

Some godforsaken piece of **** swamp. They had a penchant for malaria.

	15-09-2002 19:30									#45
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LOL Loinburger!

Can't name the ships, but didn't they land in modern-day N. Carolina?

	15-09-2002 19:32									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn Why do schools teach children falsehoods which they must then overcome in later grades? Taking the Columbus example, is this because they think a child who can imagine a man going around the world cannot imagine a man wanting to make trade? Is it just me, or does this practice seem entirely idiotic?

Take a look from the bright side: In Denmark, you only learn about the not-important things that has happened in the world... well...actually the history books seldom talks about what has happened outside Denmark. I didn't know much about the Civil War a couple years ago (I only knew, it was the north against the south). A couple years ago, I ddn't know Martin Luther King, and what he did. The main reason, that I know about Columbus, was because of a Mickey Mouse story. Oh, and pilgrims, don't know about those...have only heard the word before, but not what it was about...

	15-09-2002 20:08									#47
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I remember reading from my upper elementary history book that during the American Civil War, the South was mainly populated by people of French and Spanish descent.

	15-09-2002 21:08									#48
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Well I had an ancestor who faught for the south, and he was French (Actually from Savoy, but close enough). However, he was in Louisiana. Most of the South was populated by crackers and rednecks.

	15-09-2002 21:14									#49
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What I found fascinating growing up was that I was taught about Santa Claus, then I learned he wasn't real. I was taught about the Easter Bunny and shortly after Santa Claus I learned he wasn't real. I then turned my logical thinking to God and concluded he isn't real only to find out all the little kids grow up still believing in that myth

Anyways, kids aren't smart enough to understand exactly what happened. So they are taught a bland easy to swallow version of what happened (however misleading and false). Then as they get older, they learn more about those subjects. Unfortunately, because the facts we read are only as credible as the people writing them, most of what we learn about history isn't what really happened.

	15-09-2002 21:15									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Felch X Most of the South was populated by crackers and rednecks.

was ??

	15-09-2002 21:28									#51
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Boris and MrFun both get the "rolleyes" treatment for one-trick ponyism.

Note -- thread is about distortions in history.

The Civil War is one of the most distorted wars in our history (now more so by Confederate flag worshippers).

Therefore, I made my comments about the Civil War in an appropriate thread.


One-trick ponyism does not mean that you choose a topic that is appropriate for a specific thread.

	15-09-2002 21:58									#52
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quote: What I found fascinating growing up was that I was taught about Santa Claus, then I learned he wasn't real. I was taught about the Easter Bunny and shortly after Santa Claus I learned he wasn't real. I then turned my logical thinking to God and concluded he isn't real only to find out all the little kids grow up still believing in that myth

heh, same here.

quote: The Civil War is one of the most distorted wars in our history (now more so by Confederate flag worshippers).

I have a friend like this, always saying, 'the south will rise again' and **** like that. The funny thing is, i dunno if he even knows what the Civil War was about, and I am pretty sure he believes it happened just a few decades before he was born or smethn.

	15-09-2002 22:27									#53
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Last year, in 8th grade, we did a pretest on Anne Frank. Some kids thought WW2 was fought in the 18th and 19th century. One kid thought it was 20 years long. Shows how many holes there are in the education system. And then, after we studied the whole unit, at the final test, one girl said WW2 was fought from 1991-1994. It was very funny.

What?! Santa's not real? [Sniffle sniffle]

jk I hate the santa claus stuff. It takes away the real meaning of X-Mas, JC's birth. Parents do it so the kids will behave. They say, "The elves are watching!" To make me be good, and at that time, I thought it was real and little elves ran around my house and looked through the windows, watching me. Same thing w/the easter bunny. It's supposed to be about the resurection, but nowadays kids just want the candy. And know what's really, really, sad? It has made kids greedy. All they think of X-Mas now is presents. I told my bro who's in 8th grade, "X-Mas is about Jesus' birth." And he said, "No. That was in the old days. Now it's about giving each other presents." It's so sad.

	15-09-2002 22:45									#54
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quote: Why do we teach little kids lies?

Because teachers want to portray a history devoid of injustice and conflict, and where good (always championed by our reighteous government) always wins over evil.

	15-09-2002 22:50									#55
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quote: Originally posted by charmon1 jefferson owned slaves really i thought he was againest slavery

Jefferson was a really yin/yang sort of guy. Waint, mayber that was wing/wang sort of guy.

	15-09-2002 23:15									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Because teachers want to portray a history devoid of injustice and conflict, and where good (always championed by our reighteous government) always wins over evil.

quote: Dark Helmet Evil will always Triumph, because good is dumb

	16-09-2002 00:29									#57
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When I was 8, my elderly and somewhat confused teacher revealed to the class that Britain had not lost a war since 1066.

Riiiiiigght....

	16-09-2002 00:38									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Thrawn05 In Texas.... they won't be teaching about the Alamo anymore because it offends Mexicans.

Thank GOD! The rest of the country has had to learn about that unimportant battle just because Texas is the single largest buyer of text books in the country.

	16-09-2002 00:53									#59
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Thank GOD! The rest of the country has had to learn about that unimportant battle just because Texas is the single largest buyer of text books in the country.

I prefer the Battle of San Jacinto since:

1) We won that one

2) Santa Ana was dressed up as a women when he ran away, IIRC. Maybe that was Jeff Davis...

3) It exposes the folly of Hispanic culture. (A siesta when the enemy is near? Great idea...)

	16-09-2002 00:54									#60
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Thank GOD! The rest of the country has had to learn about that unimportant battle just because Texas is the single largest buyer of text books in the country.

Unimportant how? It wasnt exactly a Runningmeade or Waterloo, but I suppose you arent being serious anyway.