15-09-2002 02:30									#1
	Why do we teach little kids lies? Increase the size of your Attachments

I remember in my kindergarten, and all the way up to 6th grade, we were fed complete horsecrap when it came to history. (Columbus wanted to prove the world was round, The pilgrims of the Mayflower landed at plymouth rock, The early settlers and Indians gwere friendly toward eachother, The Revolutionary war was won easily, none of the founding fathers owned slaves, The indians were all peaceful innocent civilians, et cetera)

Why do schools teach children falsehoods which they must then overcome in later grades? Taking the Columbus example, is this because they think a child who can imagine a man going around the world cannot imagine a man wanting to make trade? Is it just me, or does this practice seem entirely idiotic?

	15-09-2002 02:31									#2
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You live in Texas, Dan.

	15-09-2002 02:35									#3
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They teach the same BS everywhere in the US.

	15-09-2002 02:43									#4
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If that is true, I now understand why Americans are so messed up in understanding the rest of the world.

Although, I went to an American junior school, I don't remember learning such erroneous facts.

	15-09-2002 02:44									#5
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When I went to a public school in California for four years I also never learned such erroneous facts...

	15-09-2002 02:46									#6
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Yes, well, when the intelligent, well-trained patriot marksmen saw the illiterate redcoats coming, they had no trouble decimating the British army and sent them running home on the fourth of July.

That's what they teach in elementary (1-4).

	15-09-2002 02:47									#7
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I think the bigger problem is the lack of sufficient sex ed in American schools.

	15-09-2002 02:50									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I think the bigger problem is the lack of sufficient sex ed in American schools.

Kids can figure out how to have sex on their own.

History, on the other hand, is not such an inborn subject.

	15-09-2002 02:53									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn Kids can figure out how to have sex on their own. History, on the other hand, is not such an inborn subject.

History isn't nearly as important as sex ed. You think most of these kids give a damn about what happened 300 years ago? It's in one ear and out the other for most of them.

	15-09-2002 02:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn Yes, well, when the intelligent, well-trained patriot marksmen saw the illiterate redcoats coming, they had no trouble decimating the British army and sent them running home on the fourth of July. That's what they teach in elementary (1-4).

I was taught that the American colonials bravely fought against the odds to gain independence.

Not even The Patriot, a film with infinite capacity to rewrite history, claimed what you have said is being taught.

	15-09-2002 02:55									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You think most of these kids give a damn about what happened 300 years ago? It's in one ear and out the other for most of them.

That's because they're stupid, not because it isn't important.

SG, The Patriot is not a first grade teacher. 'Nuff said.

	15-09-2002 02:57									#12
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And there I was thinking this was going to be another religion thread...

	15-09-2002 03:35									#13
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I don't recall being taught any of the lies you were taught. We learned about the conflict between the settlers of colonial Virginia and the Indians even in 3rd grade. No one ever denied that Jefferson, Washington, and etc. owned slaves, and no one ever claimed that the revolutionary War was easy.


Now when it came to the Civil War, its cause and etc., then they handed us a load of malarky, but no more malarky than the average adult Southerner accepts about the Civil War.

	15-09-2002 03:42									#14
	Re: Why do we teach little kids lies? Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn I remember in my kindergarten, and all the way up to 6th grade, we were fed complete horsecrap when it came to history. (Columbus wanted to prove the world was round, The pilgrims of the Mayflower landed at plymouth rock, The early settlers and Indians gwere friendly toward eachother, The Revolutionary war was won easily, none of the founding fathers owned slaves, The indians were all peaceful innocent civilians, et cetera) Why do schools teach children falsehoods which they must then overcome in later grades? Taking the Columbus example, is this because they think a child who can imagine a man going around the world cannot imagine a man wanting to make trade? Is it just me, or does this practice seem entirely idiotic?

I don't know where you went to school, Dan; but they did a poor job.
I went from Grade 1 through a B.A. in Business Administration Mgmt. , all of it located in Texas, and ran into none of what you're saying.

Columbus proving the world was round, for instance.
You have to be joking, surely.
Maybe it's time-frame of going to school, but I wouldn't think so.
Not seeing as how you all are so much more articulate than my generation; to say nothing of suave and debonair.

Of course, it could be like what they say about not trying to teach a pig to sing.
It will only irritate you, and piss-off the pig.

	15-09-2002 03:46									#15
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Besides, who cares about the Pilgrims, they were late comers. What were the names of the ships that carried the 1607 expedition of The Virginia Company to Virginia, and where did they land?

	15-09-2002 04:14									#16
	Re: Why do we teach little kids lies? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Columbus wanted to prove the world was round - Same here
The pilgrims of the Mayflower landed at plymouth rock- Same here
The early settlers and Indians gwere friendly toward eachother - Same here
The Revolutionary war was won easily - Same here
none of the founding fathers owned slaves - Slaverly was not mentioned until around 5th grade
The indians were all peaceful innocent civilians - Until 4th grade

	15-09-2002 04:17									#17
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I don't remember anything that I was taught in school prior to 5th grade anyway, and not much prior to 9th grade either.

	15-09-2002 04:31									#18
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quote: Columbus wanted to prove the world was round - Same here

I think at that time the sea way to India and the proof of the earth being round was still quite the same. Of course there were strong suspicions at that time that the earth was round, and of course Columbus had more the mercantile than the philosophical aspect in mind when he went to the Spanish king for money (what else than economical benefits could he have brought to him?), but it was still daring to trust a theory which wasn't globally accepted. (And IIRC, Columbus got wrong distances so that when he discovered America, he was convinced to be in India).

	15-09-2002 04:43									#19
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quote: Of course there were strong suspicions at that time that the earth was round

It was common knowledge among educated people that the world was round since the greeks.

quote: Columbus got wrong distances so that when he discovered America, he was convinced to be in India

That's because he fudged the numbers by digging up the smallest estimate of the world's size and the longest estimated of the length of asia he could find.

	15-09-2002 04:47									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Severn They teach the same BS everywhere in the US.

In Texas.... they won't be teaching about the Alamo anymore because it offends Mexicans...

All I learned in school was PC BS. This is why I won't take history in college... those teachers have an agenda.

	15-09-2002 04:52									#21
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quote: It was common knowledge among educated people that the world was round since the greeks.

Looks like a narrow view on "educated". Most "educated" people before Renaissance (and including the Greek) had taken those who believed in a round earth as "not educated" or rather "wrongly educated". Hegel proved that there can be only five planets (excluding earth): Mercur, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. During his lifetime (around 1830), Uranus and Neptun were discovered. He replied: The worse for reality if it doesn't agree with theory. It is usually forgotten that he cited a greek philosopher (and I think it was Aristotle).

	15-09-2002 04:55									#22
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I've never liked Hegel. Wasn't he a proto-Nazis?

	15-09-2002 05:09									#23
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We learned about the Trail of Tears in 4th grade...what "lies" is that?

	15-09-2002 05:13									#24
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jefferson owned slaves really i thought he was againest slavery

	15-09-2002 05:45									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Adalbertus During his lifetime (around 1830), Uranus and Neptun were discovered.

I read a couple of books on that... it was nasty. IIRC... someone was so bitter and refused to accept Uranus as a planet he shot someone i think.

	15-09-2002 05:53									#27
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wait typed in wrong name George Washington freed his slaves after he died.

	15-09-2002 05:57									#28
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quote: Most "educated" people before Renaissance (and including the Greek) had taken those who believed in a round earth as "not educated" or rather "wrongly educated".

The simple fact that there's only two written sources (or only two written church sources, forget which) from the dark ages/renaissance that claim that the earth is flat and both are from obscure theologians from the early dark ages. The whole "everyone thought that the earth was flat" is simply a myth, it was even less reputable than creationism is now since not even the church authorities were flat earthers.

	15-09-2002 07:03									#29
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Yeah, after he died. That's because after that it wouldn't matter to him anymore. When he was alive, they worked for him. Yes, he probably thought it was wrong but was too weak to give them up. Though my teachers have left huge holes in history, I didn't get some of the crap you did. We didn't learn about Jamestown until like 6th grade, but then again, that was sort of a military settlement. They were all soldiers, while on the Mayflower was mostly people who wanted to go to the US for religious freedoms and such, and they weren't commisioned to it by the government. Don't laugh if I'm completely wrong, cuz I'm only in 9th grade going to school in a hick state and teachers haven't taught me much about history.

	15-09-2002 07:25									#30
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well the only thing i heard becuase he didnt free his slaves earlier was becuase he thought it would rip the nation apart. Hey im only in the tenth grade