15-09-2002 12:47									#1
	Some decisions to make for Uber Island exploration and settlement Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

From the chat, two issues presented themselves for the next play.

There is a new settler in Port Rouge. A Galley is headed to pick it up, and I assume take it to Uber Island. Is this the case or should we put it where Munich(?) was?

There is also a Galley on the W coast of Uber Island carrying a WC and a settler. Where should this go to drop these off? I think the WC should start with the Hut, and go E, then N.

In short, a start position for the WC needs to be decided upon, and we need to order the potential city site on Uber by preference. Thus we can settle a new city by the end of next turn and have a new settler brought over for OPD's first turns.

Let us commence the discussion.

	15-09-2002 15:00									#2
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Using this map from Genghis what would be the best way to go about colonisation?

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	15-09-2002 15:43									#3
	Re: Some decisions to make for Uber Island exploration and settlement Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt There is a new settler in Port Rouge. A Galley is headed to pick it up, and I assume take it to Uber Island. Is this the case or should we put it where Munich(?) was?

Who decided were taking it to uber isle?
The settler in port rouge was meant to fill the gap between chartes and rheims and was built soley for that purpose. We can build settlers in any city , the reason a stlr was built in rouge was cos it is the closest city to the site so that we can fill this gap before the french do so that all our territory is linked and to put more pressure onto chartes.

I thought I had some sort of understanding with Will but I wasn't in the chat so I don't know.

	15-09-2002 16:09									#4
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Alright, it can still be for that purpose, as the Galley is nowhere near it yet. I wasn't sure - I think ada corrected me, but we weren't 100% whether this was still the best thing to do with Rome threatening Cherbourg.

If that's still the plan, then that's still the plan.

We just need to figure out what to do with the extra Galley now - perhaps we can get Mingapulco to start cranking out settlers for Uber Island and use it for ferrying them over?

	15-09-2002 17:40									#5
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I think Mingapulco's settlers should be used for New Munich, the gap between Timeline and Tassagrad, and the new Persian sites of New Sidon, and New Tyre.

The settler in the galley at Uber should go down to the bottom and claim the Iron and AGC should build up to mass produce the remaining settlers for Uber (4 more I think).

The galley should be used to ferry forces to the Persian front from Mingapulco.

	15-09-2002 18:28									#6
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb The galley should be used to ferry forces to the Persian front from Mingapulco.

It's nearly just as fast to transport them by road. I'd rather use the galley for ferrying stuff to Uber Isle (if not settlers then workers or garrisons).

	15-09-2002 19:55									#7
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I was thinking we should drop the wc near the wheat and procede southward, this way exploring the island the quickest possible way. My orders also reflect my view of ghengis's plan already(since I think most likely he will be MIE). Thats why I had the galley going southward along the coast. Also this way the galley could always drop off the settler if desired.
Aggie

	15-09-2002 21:02									#8
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Use the galley to shuttle people between the mainland and Uber Island. Troops heading to the front can go just as fast as the galley can, and the slighty shorter overal distance covered is made up by the fact they have to spend a turn high and dry after landing. I prefer making workers in AGC, while we ship settlers from Mingpaulco. Workers are 1/3 the minerals, which means 3 workers for the price of a single settler. Then we can build a temple.

	15-09-2002 21:39									#9
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Your proposed city sites look fine. But settle spot B before spot A - it'll grow faster.

Maybe we can explore the Hut in the following way: first, unload the WarChariot next to the Hut. Then, the following turn, move it to uncover the Hut's belongings. If barbarians step out, use the second movement point to move the WarChariot onto the Galley. The Barbarians will have to walk all the way north to AnotherGloriousCity if they ever want to hurt us. This gives us more time to prepare defense.

I used this tactic a lot in Civ 1 and 2. I don't actually know if it is still valid: does entering the Hut use up all your movement points ..?

	15-09-2002 22:17									#10
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Here's an idea: settle site B, keep the WC there as garrison, build a warrior and go explore that hut. That same warrior can later move to spot D and wait for a settler to be dropped in to settle that spot.
EDIT: or we could build the warrior, keep him in site B and send the WC to the hut (because it moves faster and has better chances of survival against a barbarian if the hut does create one).

Last edited by Shiber on 15-09-2002 at 22:23

	15-09-2002 22:49									#11
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my vote goes to shiber`s idea!

	15-09-2002 23:14									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Explore the island ASAP. Same with popping the goody hut.

	16-09-2002 02:41									#13
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Your proposed city sites look fine. But settle spot B before spot A - it'll grow faster. Maybe we can explore the Hut in the following way: first, unload the WarChariot next to the Hut. Then, the following turn, move it to uncover the Hut's belongings. If barbarians step out, use the second movement point to move the WarChariot onto the Galley. The Barbarians will have to walk all the way north to AnotherGloriousCity if they ever want to hurt us. This gives us more time to prepare defense. I used this tactic a lot in Civ 1 and 2. I don't actually know if it is still valid: does entering the Hut use up all your movement points ..?

No. One movement point to unload at the hut, the other to run, if necessary...
The BigFurryMonster's idea seems faster, IMHO. We can have the new city in five turns.

	16-09-2002 02:50									#14
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Don't risk the WC with this goody hut ! Use the WC to quickly explore the UberIsle... the goody hut can wait...

	16-09-2002 02:58									#15
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OK with the BigFurryMonster's idea

	16-09-2002 03:08									#16
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When did A and B become the priority city sites?

A was the last site to be settled and F was the first one.

	16-09-2002 03:35									#17
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quote: Originally posted by astrologix Don't risk the WC with this goody hut ! Use the WC to quickly explore the UberIsle... the goody hut can wait...

I wouldn't call that a risk at all. First of all, the WC has an attack of two, whereas the barbarian warrior that might be spawned out of the hut will have an attack of one. Second, the WC is veteran whereas the barbarian warrior will be either regular or conscript (I don't remember which. Does anyone know?). Third, we get an attack bonus against barbarians of 50% so the WC will have an effective attack rating of 3. Fourth and last, should the worst happen the WC will have a good chance of being able to retreat (since it's a vet).

	16-09-2002 07:06									#18
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Err…I made a mistake in my proposal, we need to unload the WC in a tile near the hut, not in the hut itself, and in the next turn we will have the two movement points. The WC will use one to reach the hut, and the other to load itself in the galley, if necessary. You can count one turn more in the total, making it in 6 turns.
About the location B, I was illustrating the BigFurryMonster's idea, and seems to be a good place to settle now (a city in “B” can grows fast), but if the preferred location is "F", the whole process will take the same number of turns.
Hmm... in fact, we'll need only 5 turns to have a city in the location "F".

	16-09-2002 07:41									#19
	Re: Some decisions to make for Uber Island exploration and settlement Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt There is a new settler in Port Rouge. A Galley is headed to pick it up, and I assume take it to Uber Island. Is this the case or should we put it where Munich(?) was?

quote: Originally posted by OPD Who decided were taking it to uber isle? The settler in port rouge was meant to fill the gap between chartes and rheims and was built soley for that purpose. We can build settlers in any city , the reason a stlr was built in rouge was cos it is the closest city to the site so that we can fill this gap before the french do so that all our territory is linked and to put more pressure onto chartes. I thought I had some sort of understanding with Will but I wasn't in the chat so I don't know.

I believe the Port Rouge settler should be going here:

	16-09-2002 11:57									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Aro we need to unload the WC in a tile near the hut, not in the hut itself, and in the next turn we will have the two movement points. The WC will use one to reach the hut, and the other to load itself in the galley, if necessary.

That's the idea, indeed. Takes 1 turn more than in your picture, but the risk is considerably lower.

	16-09-2002 13:19									#21
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Something to bear in mind: it seems like a virtual certainty that there will be a barbarian camp somewhere on the island. If it has been there for a while (since when everyone was in the ancient era, which is quite possible) then it will have had an uprising, and there will be a lot of barbarian horsemen roaming in parts of the island. If that is the case, it bodes ill for the treasury and the second city, since one war chariot will not be enough to defend against 8 horsemen, even if they are conscripts.

	16-09-2002 13:33									#22
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I've calculated the chances for a WC to kill a barbarian warrior or a barbarian horseman and it's 6 to 1. Considering the fact that at some point the WC will rise in rank to elite and gain one health point we should be able to handle 5, maybe 6 barbarians.
Hmm... personally I don't think barbarian encampments can spawn more than three units at a time so if I'm right we should be ok.
EDIT: also, a fast unit such as the WC in the rank of veteran or elite will almost always manage to retreat from a fight with a conscript.

	16-09-2002 14:35									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber I've calculated the chances for a WC to kill a barbarian warrior or a barbarian horseman and it's 6 to 1. Considering the fact that at some point the WC will rise in rank to elite and gain one health point we should be able to handle 5, maybe 6 barbarians. Hmm... personally I don't think barbarian encampments can spawn more than three units at a time so if I'm right we should be ok. EDIT: also, a fast unit such as the WC in the rank of veteran or elite will almost always manage to retreat from a fight with a conscript.

When two civs enter a new era, any barbarian camp spawns an uprising with a number of horsemen that depends on the barbarian level. At the default (roaming) each camp produces 8 horsemen.

The odds of a war chariot surviving an attack from horsemen is not so good. For a veteran WC caught in the open by a conscript horseman (with 50% combat bonus vs barbarians) we win approximately 75% of the time (with no chance of retreat). If we are attacked by 2 horsies in the same turn, our chance of surviving is 40%, and by the time we get to 5 horsemen (the default stack size is 8 remember) we survive about 2% of the time.

For a single WC fortified in a city, the chances of surviving an attack by 6 horsemen in one turn is about 5%, and from 8 it is about 1%.

I don't know if the uprising stack spreads out if there is nothing around to sack immediately, but if not then the WC is essentially useless as a defender.

	16-09-2002 14:48									#24
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If we attack Barbars with WC does that trigger GA?

	16-09-2002 14:54									#25
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Good point. I think it might! We should use this WC to trigger the Era in this way.

	16-09-2002 14:55									#26
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quote: Originally posted by nz_upy If we attack Barbars with WC does that trigger GA?

Yes, unfortunately. Unless my memory is really screwed.

	16-09-2002 15:22									#27
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quote: Originally posted by nz_upy If we attack Barbars with WC does that trigger GA? Originally posted by vulture Yes, unfortunately. Unless my memory is really screwed.

IIRC it does not.
So you can freely attack any barbs and you wont get a GA.

	16-09-2002 19:09									#28
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Barbarians do give promotions, but not GA.
Aggie

	16-09-2002 19:11									#29
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quote: Originally posted by nz_upy If we attack Barbars with WC does that trigger GA?

No. It doesn't. Only against another regular civ.

	17-09-2002 07:14									#30
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I doubt there's a barbarian camp or we would've seen the litttle rascals running around as we scouted around the shore.