15-09-2002 16:40									#1
	Connect the dyes Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Once we make peace with Persia (not this debate's issue) we'll have two new trade partners: Persia and England (through Persia).
Both will make excellent clients. Persia has two luxuries and England has one, and they both have several size 6 towns and one size 8 city each. I imagine both will agree to pay as much money as Germany did, if not more.
What I'm asking is that we prepare for this by connecting two additional sources of dyes to our road network, and that we make this a top priority.
The easiest dyes to connect are the unconnected dye tile near Loveshack (we have to dig there anyway to prepare a road for "New Munich") and the two unconnected dye tiles near Geofront (we already have workers there which, as I believe, will start digging a road to Tyre next turn).

	15-09-2002 18:34									#2
	Tired of ads?

EDIT:
Thanks to MWIA for pointing out an obvious flaw in this plan, which means it's totally worthless... Sorry for the wasted space .

Shiber,
I was wondering if there was a second issue that people could consider as well, actually. (Sorry to threadjack, but it goes hand in hand with this, and the same people will probably be responding to both, so...)

After Germany gave us that awsome deal for our Dyes (nice trade, Shiber!) I started to think... what if, twenty turns from now, we resecured Roman Ivory, and then turned around (would have to be that same turn) and sold it to Germany? I don't know what the AI's rules are on how much it'll pay us, but the Dyes deal seemed to come off well, and I think that we could probably get Germany to pay more for it than we paid ourselves -- consider how much more they were willing to pay for Dyes than everyone else (it seems that they are pulling in some gpt as well (unlike everyone else), considering they were willing to trade us 6 gpt for Dyes!

I don't think this needs to be addressed now, but I thought I'd go ahead and bring it up... Germany is clearly our best trading partner for cash at this time, and we should exploit this to our best advantage -- taking cash from them and (as such) denying them money, while enriching our coffers.

-- adaMada

Last edited by adaMada on 15-09-2002 at 18:51

	15-09-2002 18:45									#3
	Tired of ads?

You can only sell what you have in surplus, thus any Ivory we get off Rome cannot be used for such a trade.

	15-09-2002 18:50									#4
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt You can only sell what you have in surplus, thus any Ivory we get off Rome cannot be used for such a trade.

Really? I'd always thought you could sell stuff you didn't have a surplus of, considering that I thought the option was there and not grayed out...

Oh well. My mistake, I guess . Come to think of it, I've never really tried, so... I guess we can scratch that plan .

-- adaMada

	15-09-2002 19:58									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

You can sell resources or luxuries that you don't have a surplus of. Tested.
However, you can't resell resources or luxuries that you bought from another civ.

	15-09-2002 20:02									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I agree we should get the dyes to trade with england. There is one problem with trading with persia. First they will give all excess gpt and gold for peace. So they will have nothing to trade with.
Aggie

	15-09-2002 20:16									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

How do you know they won't agree to pay more gpt?
Also, if we decide to get techs out of Persia we could throw the dyes into the deal to lower the price of the techs.
Finally, we could wait a few turns until they've accumulated more gold and then sell them the dyes.

	15-09-2002 20:20									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

Shiber,

If I recall correctly, I think MrWIA said something along the lines of 'They'll give us all their gold, plus all their GPT, plus a tech for peace'. By throwing dyes in, we might be able to get the second tech, but we won't be reducing much in the way of money .

Having said all of that, I'm all for any and all connections to surplus luxuries and resources, especially considering the spectacular success of last turn (in my opinion, anyway) -- it's just another tool that we can use to get what we want.

-- adaMada

	15-09-2002 20:26									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

That's not exactly what I meant. Sorry for being so unclear, I'm still tired from last night and my ears are still ringing.
It goes like this: suppose that Persia will offer us Theology and Engineering for 10gpt. If we throw in dyes they might settle for less, say, 8gpt or 7gpt.
Anyway, thanks for the compliments regarding the trade plan for last turn.

	15-09-2002 20:52									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This is a good period for selling dyes as we can get the AI's cities hooked on our luxuries and they can grow dependent on them.

After Persia we need to prepare and start looking for an oportunity to secure the other three dye sources.

	15-09-2002 21:11									#11
	Got spare money?

I agree we need to connect all possible luxuries, the more, the better. Also remember, once antioch is ours the trade can flow between us and england with only alittle building.
Aggie

	15-09-2002 21:48									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Shiber That's not exactly what I meant. Sorry for being so unclear, I'm still tired from last night and my ears are still ringing. It goes like this: suppose that Persia will offer us Theology and Engineering for 10gpt. If we throw in dyes they might settle for less, say, 8gpt or 7gpt. Anyway, thanks for the compliments regarding the trade plan for last turn.

Sorry, I wasn't all that clear either.

My point was that we've taken two cities, and they're already bending over backwards for us. If we take a few more, we may not need to give them anything to get both techs. By the time they're down to one or two cities, they'll probably give us just as much as we ask for. So, though more Dyes connected is a good thing in general, I'm thinking we probably won't need them for Persia (though they'll sure be nice to have so we've got flexability).

As for the compliments, they're deserved. I'm sorry we had to disagree on the Dyes issue, but your recomendations for the other nations were superb, especially the Germany Trade -- without it, we wouldn't be even close to as well off as we are now.

-- adaMada

	15-09-2002 22:13									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Oh, I understand your point now and you're right.
And thanks again!

	15-09-2002 23:10									#14
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I agree with connecting the dyes. I connect all luxury resources ASAP in my games, just for trade purposes.

	16-09-2002 00:30									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

There is no debate about this issue. The dyes must be connected and traded to the fullest extent possible.

Trade (and a good deal of excellent combat planning) has been the secret to our sucess as a nation.

--Togas

	16-09-2002 01:19									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I started this thread mainly to pressure the government to make this a top priority for our workers.

	16-09-2002 01:26									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Shiber You can sell resources or luxuries that you don't have a surplus of. Tested. However, you can't resell resources or luxuries that you bought from another civ.

Wha....?

How come luxuries sometimes appear available for trade but the number available to trade is zero? Isn't it because the only one you have is being used by your own civ?

	16-09-2002 01:57									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Wha....? How come luxuries sometimes appear available for trade but the number available to trade is zero? Isn't it because the only one you have is being used by your own civ?

My game won't let me trade stuff I only have one of, I've tried but the option was never available.

	16-09-2002 03:28									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

MWIA, the answer is yes.