22-09-2002 02:58									#61
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Panag is right, Del Monte is a good looking city for either-or

	22-09-2002 03:05									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Reddawg I am strongly opposed to Timeline, Gaia, and Napoleton. No offense to their patrons.

I'm not offended. Therefore, we still have Chiquita, Del Monte, Geofront and Seeberg. Any other suggestions?

	22-09-2002 03:14									#63
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* Ninot pounds his Del Monte drum

	22-09-2002 03:20									#64
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I second that. Del Monte will be the perfect spot for the FP.

	22-09-2002 03:36									#65
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My first shot about the P/FP axis:

The Palace in Macross City. It is about 50% corrupt now, could flip Rheims, Lyons and Sparta and serve as economic center after finishing France and biting off a part of Greece.

The FP in Geofront. After cleaning and tile improvement this city will kick butt with all those mountains. Gives a decent economy also in the future Persian province of Apolytonia.

This gives a pretty good shape, but totally neglects Uber isle. May be we could finish a base improvement there before we finish the new axis.

What do you think?

	22-09-2002 03:54									#66
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Hmm...
Well, the Persian peninsula is da bomb. I'd bet it produces loads of commerce and shields. If we build a P or FP in Geofront we'd lose a lot of potential from the Persian peninsula.
Otherwise I would have supported your proposal.

	22-09-2002 04:06									#67
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Commerce maybe, but I think the production center will be in the region between Seeberg and Tyre, where we have about half grassland (after cleaning jungle) and half hills and mountains. That results in 80-100 shield cities. A FP location near Tyre or Gordium is possible too, but I would not go farther east, or the mentioned region will be hurt.

	22-09-2002 05:13									#68
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Del Monte and Chiquita are very poor locations in my opinion, I haven't heard any good argument for them as everything north of them is "ghetto land". Why anyone would sacrifice city sites with virtually solid grassland for city sites with all desert or plains is a mystery to me.

Timeline would hold corruptions levels to less than half for the cities from Paris to Chicago to Ubergorsk and Seeberg.

	24-09-2002 02:02									#69
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So how are things going with the commitee?

It's really important that a decision is made soon.

Is a palace jump still being considered if so we might want to build sisitnes in that city? Therefore the sooner a decision on this is made the better.

Last edited by OPD on 24-09-2002 at 02:14

	24-09-2002 02:28									#70
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I would say Gaia/Timeline is the best looking site for the FP even though the Northern affected area is wasted on desert it would easily take Del Monte, Chiquita, and the Iron Curtain into its radius. Also bringing our original homeland thus provided seaports for ship production.

The Palace would probably be located in Persia somewhere potentially covering Britain.

	24-09-2002 02:45									#71
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Well, that's an interesting idea, because there's some discussion about our expansion to north (a lot of people don't want another American War), and we are conquering the Persian’s territory. Could give us a balanced axis of production.

	24-09-2002 02:58									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Well, that's an interesting idea, because there's some discussion about our expansion to north (a lot of people don't want another American War), and we are conquering the Persian’s territory. Could give us a balanced axis of production.

Gaia or Timeline would cover that, Chiquita or Del Monte is shifting the area to cover Greece's Ivory Coast(nothing but plains and desert) at the expense of out homeland(rivers and grassland) and IMO rivers and grassland make for much better cities than plains and desert.

	24-09-2002 04:28									#73
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Just my little input. How many proposals have we come up with?

This needs to be opened to voting by Wed night.

	24-09-2002 07:54									#74
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Generally, I would think it's a good idea to place the Palace and Forbidden Palace as far apart as possible while having both at the episcenter of a major producing region...

Thus, wouldn't it make sense to have the palace located near the middle of the traditional middle of our empire (perhaps even leaving it in Apolyton because of Uber Island) and then placing the Forbidden Palace in Pasargadae once we've completely annexed the Persians and build up that city?

The other option, especially if we dont' fully annex the Persians, is to place the Forbidden Palace somewhere to the far north of the empire, as it would then be more useful for any American and/or French areas we take along with any future campaigns in that region.

	24-09-2002 10:00									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Generally, I would think it's a good idea to place the Palace and Forbidden Palace as far apart as possible while having both at the episcenter of a major producing region... Thus, wouldn't it make sense to have the palace located near the middle of the traditional middle of our empire (perhaps even leaving it in Apolyton because of Uber Island) and then placing the Forbidden Palace in Pasargadae once we've completely annexed the Persians and build up that city.

This I think is our best option. It will allow for some over lap of the P/FP in the region of Seeburg, Neopolyton, Geofront, New Tyre and Ubergrosk (our production center for the industral age) and it still optimises the Core of our Empire (with nice rivers), Uber Island and the Persian Homeland (with nice rivers).

I also remember an idea of moving the Palace around to build up areas as we go along. This is a great Idea except that once the Place is gone from an area, it becomes corrupt again no matter how many improvements are built there. The entire area becomes a drain on our economy.

	24-09-2002 17:40									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos Thus, wouldn't it make sense to have the palace located near the middle of the traditional middle of our empire (perhaps even leaving it in Apolyton because of Uber Island) and then placing the Forbidden Palace in Pasargadae once we've completely annexed the Persians and build up that city?

I could support this, although we may later decide to move the palace north some.

	24-09-2002 17:54									#77
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Personally, I think it may be better to build the FP north some, then move the Palace to Former Persia and play Culture war with England and Germany.

	24-09-2002 18:13									#78
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Personally, I think it may be better to build the FP north some, then move the Palace to Former Persia and play Culture war with England and Germany.

I agree completely, but we're the only two people that believe this.

	24-09-2002 18:57									#79
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No, I'm supporting this proposal too. Moreover, we need to plan this carefully; in the best scenario both (FB and Palace) should be done at the same time (well, more or less), what means no lack of productivity. I’ll post a map with the main proposals as soon as I can, including the "palace jump" idea(I’m working on the big WM, it’s the basis for the other maps, including this one).
In fact, in this thread we need to discuss the palace junp too, it's a great idea ( I use this in my games).

	24-09-2002 19:11									#80
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i also agree to the fact that we should either have the palace of FP north of where the Palace currently is, and place the other in Persia.

But we must decide exactly where in the "north" it will go.

I am still in the opinion that a palace or FP in Delmonte will be better for our future goals. The land to it's north may be desert and plains... but it isn't our desert and plains yet, so that might be what we should be working to change.

Also, as it is very center-like for our end of the continent, i just think it has the best long term location.

	24-09-2002 19:14									#81
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Looking at the map closer, I would say Gaia for the FP, though arguments could be made for Del Monte as well. With Gaia, though, the FP is closer to Seeberg, Uber, Geofort, and Napoleton which are going to have some majore production capapbilities once that jungle is cleared.

	24-09-2002 19:29									#82
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Looking at the map closer, I would say Gaia for the FP, though arguments could be made for Del Monte as well. With Gaia, though, the FP is closer to Seeberg, Uber, Geofort, and Napoleton which are going to have some majore production capapbilities once that jungle is cleared.

Once again, I completely agree with UnOrthO, Gaia is IMO the best location, although the Palace would provide a larger radius of effect than the FP and would thus better assist the French cities.

Anyplace north of Gaia is ineffecient and wasteful. We are Industrius, meaning our larger cities get bonus shields and sacrificing size 25 cities for size 7 cities is poor strategy.

	24-09-2002 19:45									#83
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I believe the Palace should be in Gaia and the FP should be in Pasagarde.

Your suggestions are using the one with the smallest radius for the largest area and the largest radius for the smallest area.

	24-09-2002 22:26									#84
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Re: FP verses Palace.

I didn't know they had different radii, frankly. I learn something on this board every day.

The one drawback would be that the FP would take much longer to build in Passagrad, barring another GL (which I would MUCH rather see build the FP than an Army). Actually, either way we would be pretty much waiting for a GL to get both of these up and running any time soon.

	24-09-2002 22:31									#85
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Assuming we are going to take our current territory plus the Persian and American homelands as our base empire, i would advocate the Palace in Gaia or Timeline and the Forbidden Palace in Pasagardae.

That would cover the maximum amount of quality cities and be quite capable of sustaining our Empire to the end of the game. With the exception of the Persian Homeland, America, and Hamburg I don't see the need for any more territory outside of establishing military bases for the holding of specific resources.

	24-09-2002 22:42									#86
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I agree. I may have a different interpretation of the 'military bases' but, I agree with the assessment of the locations.

I really don't see us getting away without owning Upper Abananaba. Taking all of the north, eventually, will provide a small border to defend against Rome. But that is an entirely different topic.

	24-09-2002 22:49									#87
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx I may have a different interpretation of the 'military bases' but, I agree with the assessment of the locations.

Why do I get the feeling the entire continent of Asia would qualify as a "military base" in UnOrthO's world............

	24-09-2002 23:04									#88
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There's an updated Empire Map (310 AD) in my site, http://www.arociv.com/Maps.html .
Could be useful in our discussion.
Here's a thumbnail:

Attachment: empiremap310adthumb.jpg
This has been downloaded 46 time(s).

	24-09-2002 23:10									#89
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After looking at the thumbnail I say Palace in Timeline and FP in Pasgardae.

Bonus effect would be to put more cultural pressure on Rheims and Chartres.

	26-09-2002 17:25									#90
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Cannot this problem be solved by calculation, or at least by geometrical analysis ?