26-09-2002 17:38									#91
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quote: Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar= After looking at the thumbnail I say Palace in Timeline and FP in Pasgardae. Bonus effect would be to put more cultural pressure on Rheims and Chartres.

But it would leave Geofort, Uber, and Seeberg, which will be huge producers on the edges of the zone, and not getting the full effects. Better to have the Palace in Del Monte.

	26-09-2002 17:49									#92
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Del Monte is too central. Think a bit in the future. I would move the Palace to the farther NW, for instance in Macross city, where we no doublt in the future will obtain more land. The FP I would build either in Geofront or, to honor our latest land wins, a bit more SE, like Gordium or Tyre, but not more. There it leaves the mentioned productive region (Seeberg etc.) almost in full power, and gives also ex Persia a good chance to be productive. It's also not sooo far apart from our old coreland. It has the chance to be a 2/3 region in the future. More is not necessary, as it won't be much productive for it's lack of hills and mountains, and food production (grassland!) isn't affected by corruption. The downside is, that Uber isle will be hurt, but that's not so a big deal.

	26-09-2002 18:42									#93
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx But it would leave Geofort, Uber, and Seeberg, which will be huge producers on the edges of the zone, and not getting the full effects. Better to have the Palace in Del Monte.

Del Monte woulcn't be any improvement, Gaia would be closer but would provide less emphasis for our current French holdings.

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Del Monte is too central. Think a bit in the future. I would move the Palace to the farther NW, for instance in Macross city, where we no doublt in the future will obtain more land. The FP I would build either in Geofront or, to honor our latest land wins, a bit more SE, like Gordium or Tyre, but not more. There it leaves the mentioned productive region (Seeberg etc.) almost in full power, and gives also ex Persia a good chance to be productive. It's also not sooo far apart from our old coreland. It has the chance to be a 2/3 region in the future. More is not necessary, as it won't be much productive for it's lack of hills and mountains, and food production (grassland!) isn't affected by corruption. The downside is, that Uber isle will be hurt, but that's not so a big deal.

Macross City ASSUMES we will take the French and Greek Coast which may not happen in the near future thus leaving a Palace built for cities we will not own for 80 turns.

If we take the French and Greek Coasts the optimum city number comes into play and only the cities CLOSEST to the capital and FP get anything but MAXIMUM corruption. That's why I feel Gaia/Timeline are "JumbledLetterCity" would be the best for the Palace, and Pasgarde for the FP.

Remember we are Industrius and our grassland cities will get bonus shields when our cities get larger.

	26-09-2002 18:46									#94
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I was meaning Gaia, actually. Keep getting names mixed up. This is why I always name my cities in my games 1,2,3...I can remember #'s so much easier.

	26-09-2002 18:59									#95
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I like Gaia and Pasgarde.

	26-09-2002 19:29									#96
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Remember we are Industrius and our grassland cities will get bonus shields when our cities get larger.

How does city growth generate bonus shields?

	26-09-2002 20:08									#97
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Part of the Industrius trait is that cities with larger population get shield bonuses, its in the Civopedia and the Rule book that comes with the game. I don't know what the exact computation is though.

	26-09-2002 20:11									#98
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Well, that's only on the one city square. No connection to "grassland cities" here.

	26-09-2002 20:13									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Well, that's only on the one city square. No connection to "grassland cities" here.

Ahh, but with railroads, grassland cities produce 2-3 shields per tile when mined.

Grassland cities are definitely the best ones.

Update on comittee member location opinions (latest posted opinions)

code:

GhengisFarb (palace)Timeline/Gaia       (forbidden palace)Pasgarde

Godking (palace)??       (forbidden palace)Del Monte/Chiquita/seeberg 

Sir Ralph (palace)Macross City     (forbidden palace)Geofront/Willsbury/Tyre

Aro (palace)??       (forbidden palace)??

Ninot (palace)Del Monte/Persia       (forbidden palace)Del Monte/Persia

	26-09-2002 20:16									#100
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Actually, a mixture of grassland an hills/mountains is ideal. There is no need for so much food if you have all grassland.

	26-09-2002 20:35									#101
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quote: Actually, a mixture of grassland an hills/mountains is ideal. There is no need for so much food if you have all grassland.

Right, that's why the Seeberg/Geofront region will be the future powerhouse. With all hills/mountains mined and all grassland irrigated, the production will be awesome! So we should put one of the buildings there.

	26-09-2002 20:59									#102
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So why don't we go with a poll:

Which do you prefer:
Palace in Gaia and Forbidden Palace in Pasgarde
Palace in Macross City and Forbidden Palace in Tyre

Then the citizens can throw in their debate and arguments, if there seems to be a wide support for an alternate option the committe can make alterations.

	26-09-2002 21:13									#103
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Palace we can move later. For now I say leave it where it is at. We can move it to macross like sir ralph suggests later when the time is ripe for it.

Moving the FP east from my original idea of del monte / chiquita is fine by me if we eventually plan on moving the palace in that direction.

My primary concern is in mainitain an optimum placement of only 20-25 squares apart from the final location on both.

Also, as I named Macross City, I like the idea of having our capitol there.

	26-09-2002 21:16									#104
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I'm okay with the poll idea, OPD is really wanting a decision ASAP.

	26-09-2002 21:17									#105
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quote: Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar= So why don't we go with a poll: Which do you prefer: Palace in Gaia and Forbidden Palace in Pasgarde Palace in Macross City and Forbidden Palace in Tyre Then the citizens can throw in their debate and arguments, if there seems to be a wide support for an alternate option the committe can make alterations.

Just a note to everyone. TYRE is moving east/north some. See Ghengis Farb's plans. Perhaps Goefort would be better as a result for that option.

	26-09-2002 21:54									#106
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I agree with the poll, regarding the UnOrthO comments.
Something like this::
Palace in Gaia, FB in Pasargadae
Palace in Macross City, FB in New Tyre (Ghengis plan)
Palace in Macross, FB in Geofront

And perhaps another option, but in general is this.

Note: I’m a little busy in the next two days, a lot of RL work (well, I need some money… ), my apologizes by that. Any map wanted, please post or PM me, I’ll do my best.

	26-09-2002 23:36									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Aro I agree with the poll, regarding the UnOrthO comments. Something like this:: Palace in Gaia, FB in Pasargadae Palace in Macross City, FB in New Tyre (Ghengis plan) Palace in Macross, FB in Geofront

How about :
Palace in Gaia, FB in Pasargadae
Palace in Macross City, FB in New Tyre (Ghengis plan)
Palace in Macross, FB in Geofront
Palace in Chiquita, FB in Antioch

	27-09-2002 02:50									#108
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quote: Originally posted by =OttomusCeasar= How about : Palace in Gaia, FB in Pasargadae Palace in Macross City, FB in New Tyre (Ghengis plan) Palace in Macross, FB in Geofront Palace in Chiquita, FB in Antioch

I would support this poll, but I would like my name removed from the second option as that is not my plan.

	27-09-2002 04:28									#109
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I should express myself better. I meant the city (New Tire). The correct line should be
Palace in Macross City, FB in New Tyre (Ghengis place)

But you can remove your name, of course.

Edit: If everybody in the committee agree with these options, I can make a map showing the alternatives.

	27-09-2002 07:24									#110
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Anyway, there's a new Empire Map (380 AD) in my site, http://www.arociv.com/Maps.html .
Here's a thumbnail (we just lost two tiles due the cultural expansion of Greece):

Attachment: empire380adthumb.jpg
This has been downloaded 61 time(s).

	27-09-2002 07:29									#111
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I say with this plan, lets place the FP in Napoleton, as it is the most inland, so it will cover the most of our future german holdings. Then the palace in Macross. How far apart are they anybody know?

	27-09-2002 07:33									#112
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Adding the GodKing's proposal:

Palace in Gaia, FB in Pasargadae
Palace in Macross City, FB in New Tyre (Ghengis place)
Palace in Macross City, FB in Geofront
Palace in Macross City, FB in Napoleton
Palace in Chiquita, FB in Antioch

	27-09-2002 09:15									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Adding the GodKing's proposal: Palace in Gaia, FB in Pasargadae Palace in Macross City, FB in New Tyre (Ghengis place) Palace in Macross City, FB in Geofront Palace in Macross City, FB in Napoleton Palace in Chiquita, FB in Antioch

Based on Godking's proposal let's axe the Chiquita option.

	27-09-2002 19:55									#114
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So is the commitee going to agree on posting a poll or what?

GhengisFarb-> YES to Poll Proposal
Godking-> No Poll
Sir Ralph-> No Poll
Aro-> YES to Poll Proposal
Ninot-> No Poll

	27-09-2002 22:10									#115
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I have no objection to a poll. However, prior to posting I want to make sure that all five of us agree on the options and the voting conditions (ie abstains and what they mean).

Also, in my proposals, I am less interested in which city gets the FP and the palace.... in other words, I think we can switch the cities around. What do other people think? And how would we poll based on that?

Again - I think the final decision needs to be made by the people, we just need to come up with what we feel are the appropriate choices to be presented in the poll.

	27-09-2002 22:19									#116
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I tnink one of the commitee members should start the poll after all 5 have agreed to it. I think the FP is very important as it can't be moved.

But since they have different radi it would probably be a good idea to iron out which should go where.

Maybe offer cities as pairs first

1) Macross CIty and Tyre

Then run a second poll for the winning city set that determines whether they want the Palace in Macross City or Tyre, the loser gets the FP.

We can offer more that four city sets, but I think the winner should have at least 50% of the vote, with the half that got the least amount of votes being dropped from the next poll.

The only problem is our constitution forces us to wait 3 weeks between a poll and a runoff, so we have to take months to get an accurate opinion from the people or jsut go with a gut feeling and run one poll.

I never liked that 3 week wait for a runoff clause, it makes getting people's opinions highly inefficient.

	30-09-2002 20:30									#117
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Wow, at the rate this is goind we can expect some results about 3 turns after the game ends.

Half of this committee won't even take time to post in the thread, can we elect a new commitee?

	30-09-2002 21:09									#118
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Yes, what exactly are we waiting on?

	30-09-2002 21:57									#119
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Not sure, but haven't heard from Ninot. I will PM everybody tonight and see where we stand on a poll. I want to start construction soon (like 30 turns ago).

	30-09-2002 22:10									#120
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All I know is I was ready for the poll a week ago, but several committee members refuse to support it or offer alternative suggestions.