17-09-2002 20:01									#1
	Simple question-- food:citizen ratio Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Sorry to post a new thread but couldn't find in any on line reference, how many foods are required for new citizen.


Food required for next citizen

Town: _____

City: _____

Metro:_____


I think it is 10/20/40; but not sure.
It could be 20/40/80 with reduced numbers for granary population centers.

Thanks

--PF

	17-09-2002 20:21									#2
	Support Apolyton

I don't understand your question. It normally take 2 foods to feed 1 citizen. I think you can the rest of the math. The more food available, the faster they grow.

	17-09-2002 20:29									#3
	Rephrased question Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

What is the size of the food bin for the population centers for a center to grow by one citizen.

At the start of the game you have one worker.
How many excess food have to be collected before the town will grow to size 2 citizens?

Is it 10 food, or 20 food, or ___ food units?

	17-09-2002 20:46									#4
	Re: Rephrased question Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The size of the food bin is defined by the level of the game. The easier the level, the smaller size of the bin. When the bin fill up, the city will grow. At the moment I don't remember the size of the bin, but I remember seeing someone posting about it before.

	17-09-2002 22:05									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Moonsinger is pseudo on the right track about the food bin.

The size of the food bin is set by a base number that needs to be multiplied by a cost factor to get the number of open slots that your see in the city display screen.

The base number is 2 / 4 / 8 for towns / cities / and metros.

The human player always has a cost factor of 10 for food and growth, so the bin looks like 20 / 40 / 80.

When you have a granary, it does not change the size of the bin, it lets you keep 1/2 of the full bin to get head start on the next growth unit. It is possible for the bin to be empty of you have "shortaged" it downward due to a numebr of choices. Under normal conditions the granary will cut the number of additional food units required to grow in half so this will look like 10 / 20 /40.

The cost factor for the AI players varies with difficulty level and so far Soren has refused to allow different cost factors to effect different aspects of the game. Currently the one cost factor effects every element of the game in some way.

The AI cost factors are 20 / 12 / 0 / 9 / 8 / 6 for chieftain through deity.

SO the food bin for a chieftain AI si set to 40 / 80 / 160 while the food bin for a deity AI is set to 12 / 24 / 48. The granary effect again does not reduce the size of the bins it just allows them to keep 1/2 the full quantity as a head start on the next growth step. Diety AIs can be growing at a rate of one pop oint for just 6 food units and this accounts for some of the loony toons expansion that we see in games.

The size of the food bin for the human player does not change with different difficulty levels.

Getting a separate cost factor included in PTW for each of the major game elements is one of my highest priorities to improve gameplay. It is one of the leading reasons I am not currently planning to purchase PTW if it does not include this option. The factors that need to be available include at least: growth, improvements/small wonders, units, great wonders, technology

	17-09-2002 22:56									#6
	Got spare money?

CRACKER--

Must be my lucky day. Not just a knowledgeable reply but from the person who caused all this research.

Thank you for the update. I understand that granaries do not change the food bin size, but the game effect is food requirement is halved.

I have been trying to follow your info on civfan. In particular the buildup of the initial cities. The start is the point of the game where I feel weakest. I could not model an ideal build up without the food requirement. I am planning to construct a theorical build strategy and them compare it to your 3 examples to see how well I understand the root mechanics of the game.

Followup questions about your posts--

1. Is "forest" a real terrain type, or just an overlay of "plain/grass/tundra" with bonus strategic/lux resources? It seems like it reverts to base terrain type after lumbering.

2. The terrains marked bold don't seem to have special power. They just seem to be the always available terrain resources. The none marked one are the ones you search for to find an advantage in this particular game.

Followup comment about German example--
In the Despot power table, it would be helpful to add an explanation of the '(' ')' meaning on the enhanced/improved side.

Keep on with the great analytical work you are sharing. It is really appreciated.

-- PF

	17-09-2002 23:18									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

planetfall,

wait untill tomorrow or the next day for the forest question. The way you ask that question is right in line with the way I view forests, but it is better to let the explanation included in the article sink in a bit. Technically the forests are a real terrain type but they function like an overaly. Once you understand this a bit better it will change your approach to how you use forests.

Power is relative. You will think that a common grassland square or a forest might be the most powerful square in the world after you have sucked through a 40 square jungle or peninsula of hills surounded by a wall of mountains.