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Robber Baron
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Commonwealth of Commonsense
Jun 2002
time: 00:22
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This thread opens discussion on how to tackle the next stage (circa 260 a.d.) of the Persia campaign.
1) If we want to move on Pasargadae next, we could move a mixed stack of units (pike for protection, our elite swordsmen, some mounted units) north of Willsbury, then into Persian territory via the pair of hills west and nw of Pasargadae. This presents a well protected approach, on hills, and gets our striking force to Pasag. with a minimum number of turns (2) in foreign territory. The way is not roaded, however, meaning we would not be able to wheel any catapults to the seige.
2) alternatively, we could move by road, east of Willsbury, onto Persepolis. This would add a bombardment capability to our attack. It also would expose our strike force for 3 turns. But it would get the main prize (capital, and Pyramids) first.
3) It will be hard to hold Persepolis against flipping, until we've basically decimated the civ. If we decide to move on the capital first, we should probably be prepared to wage total war in order to keep it.
Intermediate steps:
A) I suggest we switch production in Willsbury from spear to temple, to build up culture. Defensive units can be imported from elsewhere.
B) roading the jungle tile due n. of Willsbury should be a priority. It would hook Willsbury into our road grid (as soon as we patch up that broken link three tiles east of Tyre), make our defenses more adaptable, and enable us to deploy catapults north much more efficiently.
Other thoughts, schemes ... ?
Which cities should we target, in what order? Should we build up a battery of catapults (a long process -- and we are not yet a particularly productive civ)?
[edited: got the date wrong. Sheesh!]
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XOR
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Venezuela
Aug 2002
time: 05:22
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TOTAL WAR!!
Lets terminate the persians completely at once and for all.
This is what I would do:
March toward Pasagradae trough the jungle and up into the hill. From there invade. This isnt the most productive move but if we take Pasagradae:
1- We isolate Arbela and Antioch, cutting their suply of spices (which we should secure for ourselves later on, patience).
2- We cut their every possibility to make a trade route with another Civ.
3- We split their empire into 3 parts: Arbela, Antioch and the Capital's cluster. Severely hindering their possibility to pack enough force from Arbela or Antioch to take offensive or make an assault to recover a city.
4- Road connection to both empires.
After that, the troops from and Antioch and Arbela should be a minor threat and we should march on Persepolis, mainly because it has THE PYRAMIDS! and because it would cause a greater splitting of their force, not just we should consider total war, we will be in position to wage total war and terminate this persian nuisance. The Pyramids would help a lot with our underpopulation problem, which is a problem, which they would solve.
After Persepolis the next target would have to be Tarsus because it would be closer to our troops and because it will be the main productive center of the Capital Cluster.
Then we would have many choices depending on how much force we have at that moment. I'd take towards arbela while waiting for more catapults to be built and more troops and reinforcements to concentrate in Pasagradae (which, would have another name by then) to get the final part of the assault done.
Bactra and Susa are built on hills so they should be left for last. And Antioch is surrounded by river, so it's going to be a bit difficult. We will need some catapults (8 should do) to lay some severe siege on these cities.
The production on Willsbury should stay as it is, the spearman will be just 10 turns or less after the resistance is over, and if we can bring units from other fronts we should do so, but let's bring offensive units and not waste any more strenght on defending Willsbury. But it should be road connected ASAP by roading that single jungle that would connect it.
Last edited by XOR on 18-09-2002 at 12:54
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Aggie
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Of GOW's half of BOB
Jun 2002
time: 23:22
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Well vulture when we stay exterminate the Persians we mean there homeland cities, the city way,way,way north will be kept i suspect unless we make alliance with say the aztects to eliminate those. But when every "real city" is taken then we can extort their techs and think about other treacherous neighbors(hint hint germany and america). Also in our plans include(if we get approval to upgrade) 4 more knights for a total of five. Thank you Robber Baron for starting this thread, it will be very useful, because up until now I've really been unable to figure out the final plan due to not know how many troops we would have at this stage. Now the plan can be made. Also a thank you goes to WhiteBandit because he has generously allowed me to use, 5 of his workers to road for the army, thus for the record Gordium will be connected to our netwrok in 2 turns.
Aggie
Last edited by Aggie on 18-09-2002 at 19:11
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Aggie
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Of GOW's half of BOB
Jun 2002
time: 23:22
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Yes plaguerat he will have a spot of honor. The good thing is that our army is so formless we even don't know where it is, but the following is my best estimate of future movement for next 5 turns.
I will post more specific orders in the orders thread this is just to get a feel of how this strategy looks.
War orders 260 onward
Available forces on Persian Front
11 Swords (3elite,5vet,3reg)
3 Horsemen (1elite,1vet,1reg)
1 Knight (Vet)
3 Pikemen (1elite,2vet)
1Catapult
5 Workers (4 foreign,1 Apolyton)
Of the above there are 2 injured sword, one ¾ in Tyre will be ready next move, one 2/4 se of Napolitan needs to go to tyre to recover. There is also a 1/5 horse recovering in tyre.
Now here’s the general plan for the next 5 turns. Please give feedback so I can fine tune. Also I know there will be resistance by enemy units outside cities but like last turn I am sure we can brush them off with our force and still have plenty to attack with.
270
Gather forces 2n,e of gordium, I estimate this force(that will also be at 2n of gordium) will consist of the following
1 Knight
7 sword(2 elite,2Vet,3reg)
2 Pike(though 1 might not go on offense, he might defend road)
280 Army (now from now on as Persian Punishment Force(PPF))
will move to jungle 2w of Pasargadae
290 Now we have a decison to make and I will give both options
Option I (attack Pasargade)
We move PPF e onto hill w of Pasargadae
Option II (attack Antioch)
PDF moves n
300
Option I
PPF attacks Pasargade
Option II
PPF Move n onto hill se of Antioch
310
Option I
PPF forify’s and defends Pasargadae
Option II
PPF atatcks Antioch
Notes: You might ask why no horse and the answer is this "for the next 5 truns we will make about 40 a turn, in 5 turns this will allow us to upgrade 2 horse to knight, those forces will move to gordium to prepare for the possible southern push or perhaps they will go to Pasargadae, if we take that.
Ok there is the plan(please don't tell the perisan spies). I am debating which city to attack right now. Antioch could be good because I doubt it is as heavily defended as Pasargadae, however Pasargarde is more important, though antioch would insure no internal iron for persia if we encounter unexpected defeat. Antioch is also less liklely to culture flip and that is good, that actually is my biggest worry with Pasargadae. Pasargadae is closer and we could consolidate forces easier and they lose much cultural borders so armies(ours) can move at will(at least northward). I am sure there are more pro's and cons but I could go on much longer and I think we all get the idea.
Aggie
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XOR
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Venezuela
Aug 2002
time: 05:22
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Hmmm... my plan is even better than I tought, I missed the 2 cities way up north...
We can take the totallity of their main homeland, including 2 luxury clusters and a wonder AND THEN still ask them for every tech they have, maybe even 1gpt to ensure another war later on. IF they dont agree to our demands we can send a couple of ships along the coast to park a few troops next to their far north cities (preferably capital) and then make the demands or just wait a bit, the longer you are in war the more the AI will value "Peace" in exchange for goods. Trust me, I am a highly experimented and evil Tokugawa.
Another correction to my previous post is, we should attack Antioch from the hill, which does not require to cross the river. But we should start with Pasagradae and Persepolis to squish their posibility to generate any half-significant force.
As for time in our favor, no, time is against us, once we take the cities we have to rush the rest of the area as fast as we can to reduce chance of flipping as much as possible, specially at Persepolis, which might flip in less than 16 turns because it shares 2 tiles of the city radius with Bactra and has a wonder.
Catapults are now only needed to get the 2 cities in the hills, about 8 should do, we can lay siege for several turns if we have to.
However, my recomendation would be Pasagradae -> Persepolis (ignoring Antioch, this will break their force in 3 parts as stated in my previous post) -> Tarsus -> send newly recruited forces and siege weapons to concentrate in Pasagradae while going for Arbela -> Regrouping in Pasagradae. Then depending on the amount of force and siege weapons in Pasagradae we could go to Bactra and Susa (if force is high) or go to Antioch while waiting for more forces.
Any excess forces from this glorious conquest should then be redeployed and employed on capturing Abe. After Abe has been captured and his people are under our rule, we should switch the production of each and every of our cities to worker, until we have enough workers (2 for every 5 cities) and then we queue all cities to build whateve city planners chose, consider it as an emergency action to respond to an underdevelopment crisis. Said queues must be short enough to allow production of military hardware soon enough for a larger scale war, the imperial war planners are treatening to organize a revolt if production of military hardware isnt resumed asap.
Persians are Sci+Ind, if they choose to change govt they will have to ge trough 5 turns of zero production and zero income.
Last edited by XOR on 19-09-2002 at 05:10
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18-09-2002 08:09
You might be foreseeing something here. 
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