18-09-2002 19:30									#1
	AU 106: ideas Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I have found that the AU, Mini-T, and monthly tournaments were more fun than random starts. The individuals responsible for starting these games did a great job creating a variety of different and still fair challenges.

Thank you!

I also enjoy comparing my game to others. I learn a lot (mostly what I'm still doing wrong). I wish I had more time to do quality write-ups (like Catt), but I'm 3 weeks into being a father and have very little spare time (a few hours on weekend mornings) and like to spend that time actually playing.


Since the weekend is approaching I was hoping to inspire someone to create AU 106 before the weekend.

	18-09-2002 20:02									#2
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Well Theseus is the chancellor of the AU, so I guess it's up to him when the next one comes around, and which one it is. Having said that, I'm quite happy to make the map for the next one, whatever it is. Looking at the list in the curriculum, I'd guess that 'Isolation' is next, which sounds like a painful exercise in coming from a long way behind in the tech race and will annoy all the warmongers (oh, I forgot, I've become a warmonger too...)

	18-09-2002 20:07									#3
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You guys are up to AU 106 already!

* FrustratedPoet hopes nobody realises he's been skipping classes for the last month.

anyone care to lend me their lecture notes?

	18-09-2002 21:30									#4
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Don't look for AU 104, it was mysteriously skipped...

	18-09-2002 22:01									#5
	Re: AU 106: ideas Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Jawa Jocky . . . . but I'm 3 weeks into being a father and have very little spare time (a few hours on weekend mornings) and like to spend that time actually playing.

I got hooked on Civ III with newborns! Went to bed at 8:00 pm, letting my wife take care of the kids until about 2:00 am, then woke up at 3:00 am to bottle feed, letting my wife sleep until 9:00 am. The kids were quiet (when not eating) between 3:00 and 9:00 -- I've never had enough Civ III time since they started sleeping through the night.

quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 Don't look for AU 104, it was mysteriously skipped...

The Tale of Banana Island was AU 104, though wasn't labeled as such.

For those relatively new to the MiniTourney / AU concept, check out this thread. The "themes" of most games we've played have come from Theseus' initial compilation (with Sir Ralph's offering up Banana Island). Alexman has frequently carried the burden of modifying the map - though we should take turns on this and, in any event, I suspect alexman may still be on honeymoon.

Anybody have any strong preferences from the unplayed games in the AU thread (above)? I also think we ought to add an "always war" game to the syllabus, as Gastric ReFlux suggested a few weeks back -- constant warfare could teach some pretty valuable lessons and provide for some entertaining games, I think.

Catt

	18-09-2002 23:00									#6
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quote: Originally posted by vulture Looking at the list in the curriculum, I'd guess that 'Isolation' is next, which sounds like a painful exercise in coming from a long way behind in the tech race and will annoy all the warmongers (oh, I forgot, I've become a warmonger too...)

Banana Island was kind of 'Isolation', even though not very long. We might want to build another one where you don't even meet the other civs until, say, industrial... That might also make for a nice test bed for the AU mod 'Killer Civs' vs. normal, due to human non-interference.

That being said I vote for 'always war'. My usual strategy is to only fight ultra-short wars in Dem / Rep so I'll definitely learn something new here.

	18-09-2002 23:12									#7
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Hey guys!!

I've been finding I like, or even prefer, shared maps / games too, including also *gasp* 1337's first challenge (which was sort of a joke) and helping Knightblade over the weekend.

I think the next few (not in order) should be Isolation, Always War, and Science.

Isolation - I still really want to do this, including modifying it as Catt originally suggested (more water, fewer civs), but I'm concerned people won't want to play because of map size.

Always War - Can someone suggest the set-up and the rules? Sounds like fun.

Science - If anything, I'd like to do this first, but maybe changed a little... there's been a lot of discussion about research lately, and I think it would be fun to be able to point to examples from a group game. I don;t know if the goal should necessarily be being one full era ahead, but should be more about using science and tech trading to dominate the game. Any thoughts?

Anybody have any strong preferences?

	18-09-2002 23:36									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Isolation - I still really want to do this, including modifying it as Catt originally suggested (more water, fewer civs), but I'm concerned people won't want to play because of map size.

Aren't the computing power problems more related to the no. of AI civs and/or cities & units to be moved? So if the map is huge but there is little dry land the game should still be playable for most people.

	18-09-2002 23:45									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Killerdaffy Aren't the computing power problems more related to the no. of AI civs and/or cities & units to be moved? So if the map is huge but there is little dry land the game should still be playable for most people.

I hope so (and I think you're right, but I can't say for certain).

I went back to read the AU thread - seems like so long ago but was only a couple of months!

I think the suggestion I made re: Isolation in the original thread was only 4 or 5 civs on a huge map - that might be overkill, as, IIRC, my suggestion was targeted at making sure that there was no contact until ocean-going ships arrive. With our later penchant for having someone modify the map to suit our needs, we can probably get by with a Large or Huge map with a fair number of civs -- the map-maker just needs to be certain that there is a good deal of ocean between land masses and, perhaps we institute a rule against suicide ships -- i.e., all human players will know from the start that no land is reachable from the home continent without risk, and we all voluntarily agree to not take the risk in hopes of making contact?

BTW, I'm still fairly busy in RL (not much time for civving), so can play with the map for whatever game we decide to select as AU 106.

Catt

	19-09-2002 00:00									#10
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We could just eliminate Galleys from the build tree and assign Caravels to Navigation, making it mandantory. Case solved .

	19-09-2002 00:01									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Always War - Can someone suggest the set-up and the rules? Sounds like fun.

Gastric Reflux's post suggested a succession game from CivFanatics as an example. That game was played as:

quote: Originally posted on CivFanatics Game parameters: - Large map - only 9 enemies (10 total civs) - Continents with 70% (middle) water - All win conditions enabled Variant: - NO PEACE! If we can contact a civ, we must declare war on them -- that turn. Some trading is allowed before the war declaration but only of hard goods (cash and tech, no per turn deals). Similarly, no peace treaty will ever be accepted.

Not sure what to make of the game parameters - continents might provide some breathing room since a pangea map would give you a bunch of foes on the same landmass. Map size could be anything, I suppose. The "variant" is probably the most important aspect of the game.

What civ would make sense in an always war game? The English?

Catt

	19-09-2002 00:12									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Catt What civ would make sense in an always war game? The English?

What about Gandhi?

	19-09-2002 01:04									#13
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So do people vote for Isolation or Always War?

	19-09-2002 01:31									#14
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Heh, English for Always War.

There are advantages to playing Panagea for an AW--it might seem crazy but the chance to make early contact with all the opponents can be a big advantage. Although surviving the initial onslaught can be frightening.

Continents can make the early times easier, less opps banging on the door, but it has future difficulties.

	19-09-2002 01:54									#15
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I would try and play either one - no real preference for me (especially since the map will be spoiled for me if no one else really wants to make the map).

Catt

	19-09-2002 02:27									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Hey guys!! Isolation - I still really want to do this, including modifying it as Catt originally suggested (more water, fewer civs), but I'm concerned people won't want to play because of map size. Anybody have any strong preferences?

My old computer was really slow, and I would often increase the ocean size to speed up games.

Ironically I took the same computer to work and loaded XP pro on it. It's faster now than it was with 9x?

	19-09-2002 03:08									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Catt I would try and play either one - no real preference for me (especially since the map will be spoiled for me if no one else really wants to make the map). Catt

The advent of the rugby season (plus the fact I've finally persuaded 'Western Front' to run under Windows XP) is eating into my civving time, so I don't mind doing the map. Although I have to say that I'm feeling fairly evil at the moment, so will be inclined to try and tweak things to promote well developed AI civs for a bit of a challenge.

For isolation, 8 civs on a large map with 20% land should be do-able on almost everyone's systems without too much strain. I'd have thought that the 'always war' scenario would put more load on the CPU, given how many military units there are likely to be mincing around and attacking each other.

	19-09-2002 03:14									#18
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I vote isolation and evil vulture tweaking.

(this is partially 'cause I've been screwing around with IUEW as Japan, and could use a break)

	19-09-2002 03:50									#19
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Vulture - the map making chore is yours if you want it! Just remember to post it as a bic with defined civs and starting positions, etc. -- rather than a saved game -- I've really enjoyed the ability to play the "same" game as everyone else while at the same time picking a difficulty level. It seems to bring more people into the game, and it's interesting to see how games play out on varying difficulty levels.

quote: Originally posted by Theseus I vote isolation and evil vulture tweaking. (this is partially 'cause I've been screwing around with IUEW as Japan, and could use a break)

IUEW?

	19-09-2002 03:58									#20
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I was just waiting for someone to ask...

Insanely Ultra-Early Warfare.

One town, maybe two, and a pack of rabid regular Warriors looking for trouble. Where possible, they stick to the high ground, and throw rocks on people's heads.

"Grunt grunt. Saw red line on ground... everybody, GRUNT, run that way!!"

	19-09-2002 05:49									#21
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I vote for isolation first. But I only have a rather crappy and buggy PII 350 MHz with 128Mo RAM and will play this game if it runs smoothly...

Continuous war is a great idea, something i never do.

--Kon--

	19-09-2002 09:04									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus I was just waiting for someone to ask... Insanely Ultra-Early Warfare.

How could I have failed to decipher this?

	19-09-2002 09:05									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 . . . I only have a rather crappy and buggy PII 350 MHz with 128Mo RAM and will play this game if it runs smoothly...

I feel your pain, believe me.

	19-09-2002 09:07									#24
	Re: AU 106: ideas Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Jawa Jocky . . . I'm 3 weeks into being a father and have very little spare time . . .

In my first response I completely neglected to add . . . Congratulations!

	19-09-2002 10:41									#25
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You know Theseus , it would have to involve early warfare, but the rest would be hard to guess.

	19-09-2002 18:25									#26
	Re: Re: AU 106: ideas Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Catt Congratulations!

Thank you. Maybe you can give me some advice for playing with a baby in your arms. Here is what I have figured out so far.

1) Hold him in your left arm so you can type with your right.

2) Use a chair that has motion. I have to do the twist in my chair to keep him alseep.

-

I was thinking about setting up a game with no horses. To make it more challenging I was going to make sure Japan and India were the right distance away for some Midevil harrassment.

-

And why are we still playing freshmen courses? Shouldn't we be on AU 201 or AU 301?

	19-09-2002 18:33									#27
	Re: Re: Re: AU 106: ideas Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Jawa Jocky And why are we still playing freshmen courses? Shouldn't we be on AU 201 or AU 301?

Shouldn't that have to wait for PtW? We *are* playing against the AI, after all and they are Freshmen...

	19-09-2002 20:56									#28
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How about this:

Regent games are 100
Monarchy are 200
Emperor 300
Deity 400

Then when ptw is released we can consider it graduate school. I quess we would have figure out the difference between Masters and Ph.D.



It kind of to be the person who really gets the thread of topical, when your the one who started it.

	19-09-2002 21:30									#29
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OT:

So, vulture will make the map, and we'll play Isolation.

Here are the original suggested settings:

___________________________________
Goal: You're all alone... what do you do?

Settings: Huge, archipelago, 60% water, 10 civs, normal, temperate, 5B, restless, Emperor. All win types.

Civ: Persia

Notes: A builder's delight, until...
___________________________________

I would instead suggest Large, 80% water, and 9 civs, with vulture tweaking the map to ensure no inter-continental communication until what? Caravels? And all players agree not to use suicide Galleys.

I think at the time I chose Persia for Sci / Ind, which I still like for this game.

	19-09-2002 21:42									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus I think at the time I chose Persia for Sci / Ind, which I still like for this game.

Hm, interesting challenge, ancient UU that can still be used to trigger GA but is otherwise useless. Scientific gives the chance to catch up in research later but Industrious will be close to useless if the island is small.