18-09-2002 21:16									#1
	Permanent Pop-Rushed Depression? Support Apolyton

Here's something weird I found in my last game:

I was fighting a horrendous war of attrition against the Romans in the late industrial age. (Yes, with Tanks).

I took a small land-locked POP 1 city from the Romans and chose to keep it. After the resistance ended 1 turn later, I noticed that my poor remaining citizen was unhappy. I clicked on him to find the reason as: "100% We cannot forget the cruel oppression you have brought upon us".

Naturally, I figured the Romans did some pop-rushing while they were a communist govt. (I think they switched there from democracy when the war dragged on). I expected, therefore, that eventually this unhappiness would wear off.

The problem is it didn't. Not for hundreds of turns!
The city remained stuck at size 1 forever, and the poor unhappy citizen was eternally unhappy.
I even played well past 2050AD just for fun, and noticed the poor guy still brooding over his "Cruel Oppression" even at the year 2100.

By the way, I have patched up to version 1.29f, so if this is a bug it's not fixed.

Just wondering if anyone had similar experiences, and my apologies if this has already been discussed.

- Skeeve

Edit: There is a small possibility that it was me who did the pop-rushing, since my gov't was communist, but I don't remember doing so, and furthermore that doesn't change the strange experience above.

	18-09-2002 21:55									#2
	Suffering from ads?

I would think they meant by conquering them, not for any past pop rush by the Romans. Just put the worker on vacation.

	18-09-2002 22:03									#3
	Re: Permanent Pop-Rushed Depression? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Skeeve I clicked on him to find the reason as: "100% We cannot forget the cruel oppression you have brought upon us".

Did you consider rushing a Temple or Cathedral?

	18-09-2002 23:52									#4
	Re: Re: Permanent Pop-Rushed Depression? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Zachriel Did you consider rushing a Temple or Cathedral?

Glad you mentioned that.
I didn't rush those things, simply built them in the normal course of time (Communist Gov't - corruption flat) - and just for kicks shot the luxury bar up to 100% to see if that would change anything, and the darn guy was still brooding.

Another thing I tried was taking one of my (native - French) workers and adding him to the city with the 'B' key. After doing so, I then had 2 unhappy citizens! Both waxing melancholy over their "Cruel Oppression"!!

Weird, but it didn't matter for the game because this was the sole example.

I considered abandoning the city and starting a new one, but I really didn't want to lose all that culture I had accumulated with all the stuff I built.

Perhaps it was a one-time anomaly or glitch.

- Skeeve

	19-09-2002 00:14									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I think abandoning the city will transfer the unhappiness to another city. That feature, IIRC, was added to prevent an exploit of building a city, rushing like crazy, abandoning the city and recreating it.

	19-09-2002 00:17									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

Similar thing happened to me in a 1.21 game, except it was MY city. I took a city from the Indians and razed it. Next turn, I built a new city on the same site. The single pop was unhappy on account of 'cruel oppression.'

I built a temple there, had it connected to my trade newtork with 4 luxuries...200 years later, the single pop was still unhappy for the same reason. I considered adding in workers, but thought better of it, having lots of former Indian land to improve. Good thing I didn't!

As far as I recall, that pop point was still unhappy when I won or quit the game. Wierd.


Edit: Xposted with Fitz. Hmmm. Maybe I did abandon rather than raze. Curious.

	19-09-2002 02:45									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Just make everyone an entertainer or taxmen or something and let them starve down to the lowest level the city will support and they will be happy the whole time. You may rush buy a temple after a few turns so you can put one or two back to work, but I doubt is worth anything because of corruption.

	19-09-2002 02:59									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

While starving, is there a way to "set" the city / town so that you don;t have to go back and manually take the all citizens off work every turn that starvation occurs?

	19-09-2002 03:28									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Theseus While starving, is there a way to "set" the city / town so that you don;t have to go back and manually take the all citizens off work every turn that starvation occurs?

Basically, you are asking for a possibility to set the city governor to focus on "starvation", which sounds really amusing...

	19-09-2002 03:40									#10
	Get a bigger avatar today!

"Achtung, dummkopf!! You vill not let ze peoples eat... NASSING!!! You vill make zis place very die Kleinstadt, mach schnell!!!"

	19-09-2002 03:58									#11
	Inflate your Upload Space

Damn, now I know the real reason I've been so miserable since I purchased civ3. Pop-Rush induced depression is a burden to our society.

	19-09-2002 06:36									#12
	Put an end to popups!

No way that I know of, all pure labor, manually do it every turn and do not miss and forget or they could flip or rebel. Never had one do that as long as I keep all on jokers untl all resister are gone and then I may relent and use one or two to work if I have troops there that I do not need to move right away. Once the city gets to two citizens left, I let them go back to work and some times slam a temple in after a few turns.

	19-09-2002 19:41									#13
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Mongoose Similar thing happened to me in a 1.21 game, except it was MY city. I took a city from the Indians and razed it. Next turn, I built a new city on the same site. The single pop was unhappy on account of 'cruel oppression.' I built a temple there, had it connected to my trade newtork with 4 luxuries...200 years later, the single pop was still unhappy for the same reason. I considered adding in workers, but thought better of it, having lots of former Indian land to improve. Good thing I didn't! As far as I recall, that pop point was still unhappy when I won or quit the game. Wierd. Edit: Xposted with Fitz. Hmmm. Maybe I did abandon rather than raze. Curious.

Mongoose, very interesting. Perhaps the game has some sort of built-in "memory" for razing and/or abandoning. After all, Cities do have a memory for culture.
It's still a bit weird though, because if you found the new city with your own citizens why should they complain of "Cruel Oppression"?

I'm going to try to test this again with my next game. I have a feeling that there are only a few specific circumstances that trigger this event.

- Skeeve