18-09-2002 21:21									#1
	Random numbers and Attacks. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

OK, This sucks!

Last night I had over 30 Calvalry outside Paris ready to attack. Paris had maybe 6 Conscripts inside and was on a hill. I attacked with the troops and I lost 3 troops for each tick of damage on one of those Conscripts. Needless to say I didn't take the city. I backed off with about a third of my force left. Later, after I had healed up again, I came out to try again. I had a two turn run to the city. On the first turn out I was on a hill with my Cavalry and two Conscripts when I was attacked by the French. For each of his Calvalry that attacked I did maybe one tick of damage before my troop went down.

What's with that! I finaly had to just quit playing last night because I could not win a battle. It was pathetic! My troops were going down like rice at a wedding.

	18-09-2002 21:32									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

It happens sometimes. It goes the other way sometimes too. I can be frustrating, I know.

There are essentially two ways of dealing with the streaky nature of combat in CivIII:

1) Bombardment
2) Use HORDES of troops

Paris was defended by 6 conscript... riflemen? It was on a hill. What size was it?

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Paris was between size 6 and 12. That's a "city" and conveys a 50% combat bonus to the defenders. Add in the 25% fortification bonus, and a 50% bonus for the hill.

Rifleman = 6 defense. 6 + .5*6 + .5*6 + .25*6 = 13.5 defense.

The defenders had over double the defense strength relative to the attack strength of your Cavalry. Further, it is well-known that conscripts are absolutely DEATH to Cavalry, because an attacking Cav will frequently manage to knock off 1 hp, leaving the defender with 1hp remaining... which disables retreat. Thus, you Cav sticks it out and dies. This is why you got slaughtered.

-Arrian

	18-09-2002 22:55									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Arrian, Arrian... how could you leave off the third method??!!

ARMIES!!!!!

	18-09-2002 23:47									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yes, they were riflemen and the city was at 13 when I started the attack and 3 when it ended.

I guess I'll just have to hit it again when it's small.

	19-09-2002 16:00									#5
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Arrian Paris was defended by 6 conscript... riflemen? It was on a hill. What size was it? Let's assume for the sake of argument that Paris was between size 6 and 12. That's a "city" and conveys a 50% combat bonus to the defenders. Add in the 25% fortification bonus, and a 50% bonus for the hill. Rifleman = 6 defense. 6 + .5*6 + .5*6 + .25*6 = 13.5 defense. The defenders had over double the defense strength relative to the attack strength of your Cavalry. -Arrian

I was under the impression that the modifiers were multiplicative rather than additive, so the modified defense strength would be 6 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.25 = 16.875 It just seems more natural that way (to me). I'll get around to doing a test to see which is true one of these days, when I have the time to throw 500 or so cavalry at 500 defenders.

As for conscripts being deadly for cavalry - it's not so bad fighting riflemen, where the chance of getting the cavalry killed is about the same for attacking regular or conscript defenders, but if you get around to attacking infantry in well defended positions then conscript infantry actually kill more cavalry than regular ones do! Of course, conscripts are far more likely to be killed as well - and attacking regular defenders is more likely to result in the cavalry retreating.

	19-09-2002 18:45									#6
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Theseus Arrian, Arrian... how could you leave off the third method??!! ARMIES!!!!!

*Smacks self* DOH! Theseus, your are absolutely right. Armies make fantastic nutcrackers. A 3-Cavalry army packs a helluva punch. Still, you can get a run of bad rolls and lose the army.

-Arrian

	19-09-2002 21:05									#7
	Support Apolyton

Actually, Armies are great for the described situation (Rifleman conscripts), with a >89% chance of winning if at 12 hps, and a >97% chance once the defenders have been wounded.