20-09-2002 05:20									#1
	$Mini-Game Rules Decision For Session 8 Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Before Trading Session Eight Begins we need to address the following issues. For crying out load people post you opinions and WHY. This refusal to explain your opinions kept us from playing for almost two weeks last month and I would prefer not having any more two week gaps.

Keep in mind we only have 3 to 8 more sessions before the Beta is over.

1) Do we go with a 10 session Grace Period or 15 session?

2) Who should be Banker? Market Assessor? Government Agent?

3) Does anyone have objections to players with no debt bidding on unsold tiles during trading sessions? How about the 3 tile $1000/ 1 tile $unlimited loan rule?

4) Do we change the Base Rate to $50 for food and $25 for commerce?

5) Do we eliminate the 1 free vassal per player?

6) Do we raise the cost of buildings? To what?

7) Do we return the tiles of Players who announce that they give up their lands to the auction pool?


FYI
The following Players would be eligible for Government Loans on New Tile Purchases next session:

civman2000 (Cash $50, Debt $0)
Duddha (Cash $894, Debt $0)
GhengisFarb (Cash=$4367, Debt=$0) -has made WAY too much money on commerce and food
jdd2007 (Cash $1659, Debt $0)
Jonny (Cash $670, Debt $0)
Kloreep (Cash $200, Debt $0)
Nimitz (Cash $169, Debt $0)
notyoueither (Cash $517, Debt $0)
rendelnep Cash $175, Debt $0)
UnOrthOdOx (Cash $280, Debt $0)

Honarable Mention (but still not eligible)
*=OptimusCeasar= (Cash $0, Debt $4) -Missed it by $4

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 20-09-2002 at 05:31

	20-09-2002 05:22									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE FOLLOWING PROPOSAL:

I propose we leave the Grace Period at 15 turns but operate under the original rules that you can buy unowned tiles after you have paid off your debt. And you can borrow money to buy up to 3 new tiles if their total value is less than $1000 or as much as you need on one tile. (nye- if you make $301 this turn you can pay off your debt and be eligible to bid on tiles with a government loan)

We change base rates to $50 for food and $25 for commerce for next turn to see how it effects prices.

We eliminate local vassals, leaving the only source of labor pop from cities and vassals bought from auctions.

	20-09-2002 05:37									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

* notyoueither slips =OptimusCeasar= $4

Cool?

	20-09-2002 05:43									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither * notyoueither slips =OptimusCeasar= $4 Cool?

I really thought long and hard about paying the $4 out of my money but I hadn't declared it as a transaction before the Market Closed so I didn't want to do anything unethical.

If the players don't have a problem with it I think someone could be allowed to pay off the measley $4.

	20-09-2002 05:51									#5
	Tired of ads?

1) OK with either 10 or 15.

2) I do not have a clue. I wish Frances would return. Captain should be along sooner or later. Which job takes the most work, the least?

3) OK to bid. Debt limits OK. I asked whether someone could bid cash for tile F or G ($400 or so), and then borrowed funds for A ($1000 or so)?

4) Seems it would be OK, except once more lands open up the lack of supply issue may be addressed, would it not? I agree to $50 and $25 for the next 2 sessions.

5) Yes. That's fair.

6) The cost of buildings? Hmmm. Tell you what, lets see the effects of the 50% cut in produce values first. I got my 2 buildings at original costs, maybe a few of the others should be given the same chance.

7) I believe the lands in limbo should be foreclosed on by the govt when the interest free period expires if they are left unattended.

Question. How are the base supply numbers arrived at? Just the city centres themselves?

When does GF announce the take over attempt on Microsoft?

	20-09-2002 05:55									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb If the players don't have a problem with it I think someone could be allowed to pay off the measley $4.

Fair. If anyone has a problem with it, please say so.

	20-09-2002 15:46									#7
	Got spare money?

no way i could allow any kind of 'under the table' dealing like that!!!!!





*jk*

and for those questions

1) lets keep it at 15, but i dont care.
2) you
3) no objections
4) i dont think we should, maybe more of a compromise
5) no, every estate has some workers on it
6) a little, only 2 or 3 shields
7) YES, they cant give away their lands. thats unbalancing

	20-09-2002 18:01									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

1. Dont matter
2. You
3. Let's do it *see question below*
4. We should try that in one of the turns
5. We should try that in one of the turns
6. We should try that in a few of the turns
7. Yes.

We should only try ONE CHANGE AT A TIME. We all agree we are getting close to final on this, right? Trying the changes seperately would let us see how EACH of them effect the game seperately, and therefore will give us the best idea of which ones should take place.

On changing the D:S. I have read up on it, and think that simply counting the production from the tiles of people that have quit would put everything back right, and we should likely try that before changing the base rate.

Question:

When the beta is over, what happens?

Do we all start over? Do we simply open it to new people? Do we keep our cash if we start over?

	21-09-2002 03:51									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx We should only try ONE CHANGE AT A TIME. We all agree we are getting close to final on this, right? Trying the changes seperately would let us see how EACH of them effect the game seperately, and therefore will give us the best idea of which ones should take place. On changing the D:S. I have read up on it, and think that simply counting the production from the tiles of people that have quit would put everything back right, and we should likely try that before changing the base rate.

Okay, how does trying the "adding nonplayer product" for the next session sound?

Personally, I think we should leave the buiding costs alone until the end of turn 10 as the loss of free vassals will raise the cost of them.

quote: When the beta is over, what happens? Do we all start over? Do we simply open it to new people? Do we keep our cash if we start over?

My concept is we simply continue with new players/markets added, I'm planning on 6 cities per Market and thinking each Market should be it's own thading session thread (not wouldn't that be complicated) you have to sell the product you generate in the market it was generated unless you own a caravan/cargo ship or something to transport it to a different market.

The Beta players would be considered the "old nobility". And current players wouldn't have to worry about other markets unless they wanted to buy land there.

Does ANYONE have a problem with gifting the tile directly west of BHQ to Captain? Most people have paid off their debt so it's not like he would have an advantage.

	21-09-2002 08:46									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

1) Go with the 10 turn.

2) No opinion.

3) No objections to either.

4) Keep it the same. Once all the abandoned lands are returned to the government (and added into D:S calculations again), things should balance out.

5) No, every estate does have some people.

6) Raise the cost of buildings by 50%.

7) Yes.

BTW, where has Captain been for the past month?

	21-09-2002 09:00									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Does ANYONE have a problem with gifting the tile directly west of BHQ to Captain? Most people have paid off their debt so it's not like he would have an advantage.

Sorry I haven't done such a great job in responding to threads such as this; since Ghengis has been doing such an awsome job as banker, I've been content to not worry about the $Mini-game (hopefully soon I'll have time to actually figure out all the new rules ).

Captain should be given one tile. It's only fair considering all he's done for us. I'm assuming that's the one he asked for before he left, right? (For those who don't know, Captain had to leave the Demogame for a bit, but originally started the $$$Mini-Game, but was basically uncompensated for his efforts, even in the terms of the $$$game he created. I think Ghengis is proposing setting aside one tile that he showed interest for before he left as his for whenever he should return.)

-- adaMada

	21-09-2002 16:02									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

code:
  
OKAY PROPOSAL TWO:

I propose we leave the Grace Period at 15 turns but operate under the original
 rules that you can buy unowned tiles after you have paid off your debt.  And you can borrow
 money to buy up to 3 new tiles if their total value is less than $1000 or as much as you need
 on one tile. (nye- if you make $301 this
 turn you can pay off your debt and be eligible to bid on tiles with a government loan)

NO CHANGE TO THE BASE RATE, BUT WE INCLUDE THE PRODUCTION OF UNOWNED TILES IN THE CITY SUPPLY.

We eliminate local vassals, leaving the only source of labor pop from cities and vassals
 bought from auctions. 

Attachment: citygrid.gif
This has been downloaded 1222 time(s).

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 21-09-2002 at 16:09

	21-09-2002 22:57									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

That looks good GF.

Yes, Captain's land should be saved for him.

	22-09-2002 05:23									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Okay, I'll reedit the available tiles map tonight. I need feedback/alternate ideas on the purple and green proposals.

The reason I advocate changing the base rate versus simply selling the unowned food is that when the maximum food is sold it should be very close to the Base Rate, that is if demand is 24 and supply is 6, the maximum we could sell would be 24 or 24/30 = $80. Anything less would be the result of overcompetion from us for oversupply.

	22-09-2002 06:45									#15
	Remove this text

Ghengis: Proposal 2 (green) is excellent, and we should use it.

	22-09-2002 11:41									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

When all land is being worked, and food is base $50, then we will see the problem. OK for now.

	23-09-2002 05:34									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

notyoueither, jdd2007, UnOrthOdOx, and adaMada you didn't comment on Green or Purple, or suggest a change that you would require, can we settle on plan for the next trading session?

Jonny's the only one who has stated which one he prefers.

	23-09-2002 15:20									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

green looks good to me as well. doesnt matter really. when can i buy more tiles? i already stated my opionion on the other subjects

	23-09-2002 20:05									#19
	Tired of ads?

Green is fine.

Q: On the bidding of tiles, can one use cash to increase the bid? Or are we still limited to $1000 cash or loan?

	23-09-2002 20:14									#20
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Green is fine. Q: On the bidding of tiles, can one use cash to increase the bid? Or are we still limited to $1000 cash or loan?

The rule was that the $1000 limit is if you are borrowing for more than one tile. If you are financing only one tile then there is no upper limit. I would say that if you are going to be doing both state in your bid that you will be borrowing the money.

Green seems to be winning........

	23-09-2002 20:31									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Let's try Green.