20-09-2002 10:51									#1
	Theory: AI civs more aggressive on proportionally small land masses Put an end to popups!

Hi,

in my current game, Deity, Huge map and 8 civs, I ended up on a small contintent which included all civs. The funny thing is that this continent only take up a fraction of the world map (screenshot):

Attachment: small_world.jpg
This has been downloaded 129 time(s).

	20-09-2002 10:52									#2
	Support Apolyton

The funny thing is that all AI civs have been at war constantly from the beginning of the game (screenshot). I haven't seen this aggressive civs before, so I came up with the idea that maybe the AI civs feel they need to expand more. Since the land mass is so small, most civs end up with fewer cities than their optimum number, and start wars to try to get more land. On bigger land masses, most civs seem busy expanding into unclaimed land and after that gang up on some weak civ.

What do you think?

Attachment: everybody_at_war_with_every.jpg
This has been downloaded 124 time(s).

	20-09-2002 16:43									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You are correct IMO that civs would rather settle than fight in the early going. If there is space to settle, they are building spearmen and settlers to do it. It's probably oversimplifying a bit to say that they build no offensive troops, but they definitely build more when they run out of room.

Theme: Let 'um have tundra. You can take advantage of this AI preference by behaving in the opposite way. Stop settling before the land is used up and focus on military early.

	20-09-2002 21:55									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I never bothered to test it, but posed a question to the Creation and Customization Forum (as well as General Forum) to see if anyone had done something that I suspected might influence AI aggression. I asked whether anyone who plays with an increased (modded) OCN had seen noticeable additional AI aggressive expansion. As with your observations, I wondered if, with a much larger OCN, the AI would seek to expand, even through warfare, until it hit the OCN -- all of this based on others' comments that a reduced OCN limited AI expansion (so the map remained under-developed). My question, I think, was striving towards the same underlying hypothesis - with less land than needed to reach the OCN, would the AIs turn aggressive warmonger?

I never got a response to the queries and never followed up. Have you observed this behavior in multiple games, or just the current one? Anyone here ever played with a modded (increased) OCN? To echo your question, do cramped quarters help produce killer AIs?

Catt

	21-09-2002 05:17									#5
	Remove this text

I fundamentally agree with the premise here, although it seems to me that it points more toward the causes of early AI aggression than the possible development of killer AI civs (the two are related, but I'll explain).

First, as to OCN, I think that the AI civs do maintain a focus on peaceful expansion as long as they 1) have room to grow and 2) are under the OCN.

It's what happens when they are constrained that is interesting. Aside from personal & 'poly anecdotal experience, I've got two clues from Soren, and some thoughts.

First, at one point (I think a chat), I asked what would facilitate the development of killer AI civs, and he responded "give'em room." In the absence of lebensraum, what will they do? I believe go to war.

Second, when I asked about the concept of an "aggression trigger," he replied that (paraphrasing) "the AI civs respond to their environment... if there are military threats, they will act accordingly."

Lastly, we know that the AI civs are constantly checking military strength... meaning, if they are stronger by a large enough margin, it's time to attack, and if not, it's time to get stronger.

So what does this mean? I believe that in the absence of early lebensraum, AI civs will often get into an early arms race, especially if triggered by the presence of an early aggressive civ, such as Zulus, Aztecs, or Germans (or me ).

While related, this is not necessarily the same as the development of killer AI civs, although it can be... in many cases, the civs participating in the arms race will overly weaken themselves. But sometimes (and I love it when it happens), a truly strong, healthy, and aggresive AI civ will emerge from the arms race...

That's when it gets fun:

There can be only one.

	21-09-2002 09:34									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

A small world lends itself to aggression. Not a surprise.

	21-09-2002 18:05									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Civilizations are fighting for land in history, so why wouldn't Civs in Civ III do so?

	22-09-2002 08:16									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Once all the available land has been taken, then production will necessarily shift to other options, including military.

	22-09-2002 18:38									#9
	Tired of ads?

Could you post a save game of it (current or 4000BC autosave)? It sounds like fun.