22-09-2002 05:47									#1
	tech rate Support Apolyton

if I want the techs to progress slower, what should I do? higher the tech rate or lower it?
Right now, I'm playing on Monarch, and in 980 AD, everyone is building the Apollo Prog. This is madness.

	22-09-2002 07:57									#2
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First if you have Accelerated Production on turn it off. Then using the editor raise the minimum and maximum discovery times (this option is found in the general tab). Also using the editor raise the costs of the techs you want to take longer to discover.

	22-09-2002 08:10									#3
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Raising the "Tech Rate" causes technology to progress slower; lower it, and tech progresses faster. Note that the Tech Rate is higher for larger maps, so that techs take longer to research on those maps, given the same amount of science spending (this is made up for through increased trading and/or larger empires).

The amount of science spending needed to complete research on a tech is 1/10 the Tech Rate times the tech's "Cost", I believe. Less for each civ you know that has it. (The number of turns required is also restricted by the maximum and minimum research rates, of course.)

I would suggest also raising the minimum research rate to 100 (no more than 100 turns to complete a tech).

	22-09-2002 09:01									#4
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Considering just how early that is I am pretty certain you have accelerated production turned on.

Turn it off. That will bring things down close to normal. You will have to work at it a it to lauch much before 1900.

Raising the minimum time for tech will help slow things down if you want to go farther. The tech rate is about trading costs when civ doesn't have as much as the AI civ thinks the tech is worth. Thats all it does. It can slow down the amount of trading not the actualy research.

The tech rate was discussed in Friday's chat with Firaxis.

	22-09-2002 11:13									#5
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Just to stir the pot a bit, posts in this thread is contrary to my understanding ...
Which is that the Tech Rate is the measure of how much the AI civs valued a tech as far as trading is concerned. The higher the rate, the more they would be willing to pay for it in trade, making them eager to buy from others rather than research it themselves. Note that in the Editor the Tech Rate rises as you play higher levels. A rate of 100 would neutralize any desire to trade.

EDIT: I was confusing "Tech Rate" for "AI to AI Trade." See the revelation below.

Last edited by Jaybe on 22-09-2002 at 21:48

	22-09-2002 12:47									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Just to stir the pot a bit, posts in this thread is contrary to my understanding ... Which is that the Tech Rate is the measure of how much the AI civs valued a tech as far as trading is concerned. The higher the rate, the more they would be willing to pay for it in trade, making them eager to buy from others rather than research it themselves.

This is why someone, Soren I think, brought this up in the latest chat. Its been mentioned before but a lot of people haven't seen it apparently.

The Tech Rate (badly named) only deals with cases were an AI civ is trying to trade a tech AND the buyer doesn't have as much to pay for it as the seller thinks its worth. It's a discount for the impoverished. Its there to simulate the human players tendency to sell a tech cheap because something is better than nothing. That reason was mentioned in the chat and is not something I am guessing at.

If the chat transcript was available I would quote it but I stuck with remembering from yesterday.

	22-09-2002 17:13									#7
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I think someone is confusing "AI to AI trade rate" found under the difficulty tab with the "Tech Rate" found under world sizes.

From the Editor help file:

"Tech Rate (World Size Properties)

Determines the global technology research rate for all civs playing on a map of the selected world size. The larger the world, the more cities can be built, therefore civilization advances can be more quickly discovered. Generally speaking, larger maps should have higher tech rates. The standard 100 x 100 Civ III world size uses a tech rate of 120."

-Alech

	22-09-2002 18:53									#8
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I don't know if I am confused or if the terminology was confused in the chat.

I believe you are right in either case.

	22-09-2002 21:46									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Akaoz I think someone is confusing "AI to AI trade rate" found under the difficulty tab with the "Tech Rate" found under world sizes. From the Editor help file: "Tech Rate (World Size Properties) Determines the global technology research rate for all civs playing on a map of the selected world size. The larger the world, the more cities can be built, therefore civilization advances can be more quickly discovered. Generally speaking, larger maps should have higher tech rates. The standard 100 x 100 Civ III world size uses a tech rate of 120." -Alech

THAT'S IT!!
Yes Alech, you are correct. I confused the two terms.

	22-09-2002 23:46									#10
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Glad I could help.

BTW, someone posted a formula for how high the rate should be depending on number of Civ's and size of map... Anybody know it?

-Alech

	24-09-2002 08:11									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Akaoz Glad I could help. BTW, someone posted a formula for how high the rate should be depending on number of Civ's and size of map... Anybody know it? -Alech

I think that was me.


Given Width(w) and Height(h) of the map and Number of Civs (nc) then these formula are based on the 1.21f standard map values:

Distance Between Civs = sqrt( w*h ) * 0.15 - 3

Optimal Number of Cities = (w*h) / (75*nc)

Tech Rate = (w*h) / 22.5 <=== to mimic the tech rate of the tiny map

Tech Rate = (w*h) / 41.7 <=== to mimic the tech rate of the standard map

Tech Rate = (w*h) / 64 <=== to mimic the tech rate of the huge map

Max Research Time = 5 * nc


Unfortunatly the editor will only accept a Tech Rate of up to 999 so you can only slow down progress so far. Still, if you set the Tech Rate of the huge map to 615 it plays like the standard map.

Mike G

	24-09-2002 18:12									#12
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THanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

-Alech