23-09-2002 16:07									#1
	Multiplayer - some network questions Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

When we were talking after the game last night we came up with a few questions that probably noone can answer:

• Of course, the LAN setup in the game sucks - any other decent game let's you enter the IP of the counterpart. But how does it work? Does it search for a already existing lobby on the whole LAN and if so what defines the borders of the LAN? IP, workgroup, ...? Any network specialist around here?
  
• gamepoint is the last server that's available. What if they quit? I know they're dutch so maybe Locutus can beg them not to for the sake of patriotism...
  So how would we set up such a server? Where do we get the necessary programs? Activision?
  
• anyone ever tried to find out through which ports ctp2 is communicating? Maybe we could find the cause for nonworking setups (like ETB and me) like that.
  

	23-09-2002 20:34									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Maybe it could work to add new servers to the CTP2 server list if you edit the bootserv.txt in your ..\ctp2_program\ctp\ folder. The only problem I see here is how to set up a server.

-Martin

	24-09-2002 00:43									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hi! I used to play CTP2 MP a lot when it first came out. When I'm trying to play MP via Internet today, it doesn't seem to work at all: One server doesn't even let me enter the lobby, the other one (nl.alink.gamepoint.net) allows me to enter the lobby but I can't enter any game (nor can a friend enter my games).
I mailed that to Locutus and he suggested I posted it here, so I do. Perhaps all MPers can work on those server problems to try and have again the fun it used to be "back then".

Yours,

Tominator

	24-09-2002 00:57									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Tominator Hi! I used to play CTP2 MP a lot when it first came out. When I'm trying to play MP via Internet today, it doesn't seem to work at all: One server doesn't even let me enter the lobby, the other one (nl.alink.gamepoint.net) allows me to enter the lobby but I can't enter any game (nor can a friend enter my games). I mailed that to Locutus and he suggested I posted it here, so I do. Perhaps all MPers can work on those server problems to try and have again the fun it used to be "back then". Yours, Tominator

Dont worry, none of us can enter the other server, i think its for CtP1. My first question to you would be, do you have a firewall, or the one that comes with Win XP enabled? Some people cant join other peoples games, its becoming a common problem. Maybe we should ask Activision what the hell theyre playing at.

	24-09-2002 03:27									#5
	Support Apolyton

I already asked him that and he said no. What OS are you using, Tominator?

	24-09-2002 06:25									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I’ve done a little research since my MP game ended yesterday with Maquiladora and mapfi. I found this question and answer (ID 8399) on the Activision web site:

quote: Question: When trying to connect to multiplayer using my direct connection, I receive the error "You need to dialup, to use Internet". Answer: This error only occurs if you are using Windows XP, which uses different network code from the Windows 9x/ME platform. This operating system is not one supported to play the game.

At first I thought that this was extremely bad news – like XP (my OS) can’t play properly in MP. But this also got me thinking And I had an idea about Windows compatibility. I was able to set my CtP2 program file to run as Windows 98 compatible and it actually worked! I was able to go to the lobby via a network connection instead of being forced to use my dial-up connection directly. I am certainly encouraged by this initial test, but the real test will be in MP Internet play.

To run CtP2 in Windows 98 compatible mode under Windows XP, right click on the program file (ctp2.exe), select Properties, the Compatibility tab, and check the top box “Run this program in compatibility mode for:” and select “Windows 98 / Windows Me” in the drop-down box. Click OK to save your changes and CtP2 will run in Windows 98 compatibility mode.

I hope this will solve the remaining problems (crashes) that we experienced in our MP Internet game. Time will tell. Any suggestions or comments are welcome!

	24-09-2002 06:53									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I didnt know XP wasnt supported, that doesnt mean it doesnt work for some though. ETB why dont you try and host a game with mapfi just to see how it goes now?

What does the Carptivison server do besides hosting chat, and showing games available?

	24-09-2002 07:18									#8
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora I didnt know XP wasnt supported, that doesnt mean it doesnt work for some though. ETB why dont you try and host a game with mapfi just to see how it goes now?

Yes, excellent idea since mapfi and I were not able to connect before. Let me know if you have a few minutes this week mapfi – I should be available after 2100 hours GMT, but I could make it earlier on a specific date if you want. Just let me know ahead of time.

Also, I want to verify combat without the host crashing! I wouldn’t mind digging out our savegame just to have some human vs. human combat.

	24-09-2002 11:53									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: by Craptivision: This operating system is not one supported to play the game

Was anyone surprised reading that?...

Yes ETB, we should try to out. I'd have a little time tonight or tomorrow - whenever suits you best.

It looks, however, that I was right and noone can answer my questions in the first post...

	24-09-2002 12:19									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Went cruising on the activision support page and found something else that might be of importance to all of us:

Q: My game crahes to the desktop without any error message:

A: No other programs should be running on your desktop and:
"The virtual memory has to be set on a fixed size."

So we shouldn't use the automatic size assigning that windows has as a default setting.

	24-09-2002 12:46									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You mean you don't set that to a fixed size be default? That's the FIRST thing you want to do when you install Windows on a PC... If you can afford it, set it to 3 times the amount of memory in your system - although the ideal amount differs per system, that's a good rule of thumb to follow (I learned that from the King of System Optimization himself: skorpion59). So if you have 64 MB RAM, try to have a 192 MB swapfile (if you have a small HDD and can't afford this, you should still try to have as large a swapfile as possible). If possible you even want to give the swapfile it's own partition, preferebly one near the 'front' of the HDD... Having a fixed swapfile is a big performance & stability saver on ANY system and for ANY application (although I'm not sure about XP, a lot of things changed in XP).

Last edited by Locutus on 24-09-2002 at 12:55

	24-09-2002 13:35									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: You mean you don't set that to a fixed size be default? That's the FIRST thing you want to do when you install Windows on a PC...

lol - I can picture you sitting in front of the computer shaking your head...
No - I don't because I can't decide on turning it completely off. I've got 512MB RAM and in such cases most advise to turn it off completely because it slows the system. (at least that's what they say for XP...) So I just rely on Microsoft not producing total crap...

	24-09-2002 14:18									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Well, I did some research and found what I expected to find: on XP, it's normally it's best to have a swap file on a seperate partition which a large blocksize (due to NFTS's properties it's important to use a large blocksize (e.g. 64 kb), rather than the small 4kb block size that is used by default), and depending on how much you burden your PC, a swapfile size of 1.5-3 times your amount of RAM works best. If you have a very light usage of your PC - never more than two or three apps open at the same time, you don't work with graphics- or video-editing, you don't run high end apps or games or you don't do anything else that burdens your system - you could try disabling your swapfile altogether. However, some programs may not work correctly if you do this and you should only do this if you're certain you'll never exceed your physical memory, as this will cause serious performance and stability problems. When you have a large, fixed swapfile but you don't need it, it will simply remain unused, the performance reduction isn't all that dramatic. I have 512 MB memory as well and have set my swapfile size to 768 MB for starters.

	24-09-2002 16:44									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hi!
My game starts to resynchronize each turn after the 5th or 6th round. and later it's crashing to the desktop every 4th or 5th turn or so. And the really strange thing is .. we're only playing LAN-games, so theres no weak internet or server-problem.
I set my swap-file to 512, 1024 (standard) and even 2048 (just for testing ). I even changed destop res. to 16 bit (said on activision-site).
i tried smaller maps, less players, .... crash,crash,crash,...
it's really depressing ...

	25-09-2002 01:00									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Good idea to run in Windows 98 compatibility mode. Personally, I'm using 98 SE, but my friend Andy (with whom I was trying to play) uses XP. I'll ask him to try in Compatibility mode, let's see if this works.
Keep looking! I think it might work! And let's tell Activision they should reopen some of the other servers (e.g. the one in Germany!) or else ... (we'll think about that later).

Hopefully

Yours
Tominator

	25-09-2002 16:15									#16
	some answers Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Ok, so I bothered to ask Activision. Boah, I tell you, they must hate those persisting support searching customers. Furthermore, some of those answering just seem to have no idea of the game at all. It comes down to the fact that they just don't want to provide any support if envolves work.

But after all - I was able to at least answer one question, the mp-server:
To provide a MP-server on the internet available for everybody you need to run Anet / Activlink a program by Activision which is actually the MP-server program for many games. The source code has surprisingly been released. You'll find it at http://www.kegel.com/anet/ There even used to be a page explaining how to do the setup for ctp2, but it is not there anymore. I was able to retrieve it from the google-archive though and so I am attaching the text here.

Attachment: serversetup.txt
This has been downloaded 58 time(s).

	25-09-2002 16:38									#17
	Remove this text

That explains the function of the anet.inf.

-Martin

	26-09-2002 01:30									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

That’s some pretty sharp detective work there mapfi! So we can make our own servers? I’m going to have to try this out…

	26-09-2002 14:04									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

yes we can - you just need a otherwise unused computer to be set up as a linux server and a highspeed connection...

	01-10-2002 10:50									#20
	Terrible discavery Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Damn!!!! All my favourite SLIC don't work in LAN game, because in this case AI can't recognise who is HUMAN!!!
This is true as I stand here. FRENZY and many other nice SLICs don't work properly via LAN game.
Can anybody correct this?

	01-10-2002 21:26									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

Does anyone know how you can actually tell if the SLIC files work when playing over LAN, apart from seeing with your eyes what the AI does?
The reason being when i play Craddle over LAN i see the AI behaving differently compared to the vanilla game. And when i play MedMod i get all the special units etc. So it appears to me that SLIC works when MP over LAN??? true or false?

EDIT:

As to the network stuff - well running win98SE over a LAN network of 22 pc's i've never had a problem getting CTP2 to run on any selection of them(upto 4max - i'm not crazy!).
All the pc's are visable in 'neighbourhood network' , and it works either with static IP's or with it on Autoselect from the DHP server. I think it is more stable with static IP's, but i have got it to work with either.
Using TCP/IP protocol when players join in the game it seems to auto recognise the network(and the IP's of the computers taking part) so i've never had a problem with people not being 'seen' in the lobby before launching a game.
The bits in the FAQ are important to getting MP to run as smoothly as possible.
PC power might well be an issue - always use the most powerfull pc as the host.
XP seems to be another matter? And as i don't have access to that version i can't comment.

Last edited by child of Thor on 01-10-2002 at 21:56

	02-10-2002 01:39									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor XP seems to be another matter? And as i don't have access to that version i can't comment.

Yes, I experienced some problems when playing in the MP tournament with Maquiladora and mapfi. It started out well and stable, but the host (Maq. using Win98SE) would crash during human to human combat. Another problem was mapfi and I (both on XP machines) could never join a game if either one of us hosted. Mapfi turned off his firewall (XP defaults to include a firewall on all dial up connections) and that appeared to resolve some of the crash problems. XP can also run a program in 9x compatibility mode – I haven’t yet confirmed that it resolves all remaining problems we had, but it appears to be helpful to run CtP2 in Windows 98SE compatibility mode for MP games.

	02-10-2002 01:52									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Does anyone know how you can actually tell if the SLIC files work when playing over LAN, apart from seeing with your eyes what the AI does? The reason being when i play Craddle over LAN i see the AI behaving differently compared to the vanilla game. And when i play MedMod i get all the special units etc. So it appears to me that SLIC works when MP over LAN??? true or false?

All the SLIC certainly should work in MP. It might not work in exactly the same way, because the programmer might have assumed there was only one human player, and there are usually big problems with messagebox-related code (like the citycapture code) - they cause resyncs (They should work fine in hotseat/PBEM though).

	02-10-2002 10:32									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: All the SLIC certainly should work in MP. It might not work in exactly the same way, because the programmer might have assumed there was only one human player, and there are usually big problems with messagebox-related code (like the citycapture code) - they cause resyncs (They should work fine in hotseat/PBEM though).

Nope! Some SLICs doesn't work via LAN. Really. Recently I played versus 2 my friends and 4 AI opponents via LAN. Total 7 players. In that case Updater.SLC worked only for HOST player. Indeed. The rest 2 human player can't upgrade anything.

Another thing: AI doesn't have ARMY more than 3-4 units per STACK. Although when we copied saved file from MP to Games folder and try to play as single-player then AI quickly groupped 2 stacks per 11 units and destroyed human defence. That is Frenzy.slc work properly only for single-player games. Too bad.

That is any functions like "IsHumanPlayer(player[0])" doesn't work in MP game.

	02-10-2002 19:17									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Still doesn't work: Andy (using XP) disabled his firewall and ran CTP2 in Win98SE-compatibility mode, but still neither of us can join any game (at least any of the games we tried). Message is "Connecting...", after about a minute "Could not connect". The host can see the other one trying to join, then he disappears from the Player list (when message "could not connect" appears).
We tried dynamic participation, everything -> No Go!
Any more ideas? p.s. Both patched versions (.1, not .11).
Please help!

	13-10-2002 23:55									#26
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

A friend of mine and me, we have the same problem, running win 2k pro though.

Serching for servers: 2 servers found

games.igateway.net -> connection refused
nl.alink.gamepoint.net
->
Joining the lobby - works
creating a game - works
joining a game - FAILS

I wonder if its still this servers.dat thing. The one I tried (found on the Apolyton Directory) is dated 19-09-2001, hence maybe its outdated ?

	13-10-2002 23:58									#27
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

AFAIK the servers.dat file only controls what lobbies are available, besides other non-win2K people can join games.

Did you both have Win2k?

	14-10-2002 00:15									#28
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora AFAIK the servers.dat file only controls what lobbies are available, besides other non-win2K people can join games.

About a year ago we managed to get a few games going. At the time, we both used win95. Then my friend changed to win Me and it didn't work anymore (At the time my friend wasn't even able to join a lobby). Meanwhile we're both on win 2k.
We can both join the lobby but we can't join games (neither ours nor others).
There are only 2 lobbies available. I can recall there being about 5 or 6 a year ago. Are there only 2 left?

	14-10-2002 03:22									#29
	Got spare money?

Actually it's only one - the other one is for CtP IIRC. Read further up the thread on how to set up a new one gotta have some money and time...

	13-11-2002 22:32									#30
	windows version Full PM-box? Change here!

Hi,

we had some problems since I have a new pc with windows xp. Here are some experience:

Scooters system: win200k
conquerer: win98
Mattas (me): win xp (running ctp2 in compatibily mode)

I create a game:
scooter can not join
conquerer can join

scooter creates a game:
I can not join
I could join in earlier times, using win98

conquerer creates a game:
scooter can join
I can join
---> fine game

Did anyone ever enter a mp-game created by non-win98 using non-win98?

Does anyone now, which ports are needed to connect? I guess, the host needs some ports open for incoming connections or so.

thanx in advance

Mattas