25-09-2002 20:23									#61
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Hmmm.....so when my latest game started, as the Egyptians, I noticed that I already had three techs under my belt. Those three techs are just randomly generated each time? Interesting.

Is there any way to (via slic codes) to un-randomize this and lock certain civs into certain starting techs? Further, if there was a way to make a non-researchable, non-tradable tech, it'd be possible to create civ-specific units....if you wanted to....I thought they were neat, but a bit overblown in Civ3.

I'm very excited about seeing what Cradle and MedMod look like, but I figured I'd step slowly in that direction (one game unmodded for feel, apply patch and SAP, see how that plays, and then, go mod-exploring!)

So far, it's been a fantastic journey! In fact, I'm getting another copy of it for my girlfriend today....we've got a LAN set up at home and....

-=Vel=-

	25-09-2002 22:16									#62
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quote: I know, but I bet that that can be changed

I rather say very easily changeble.

quote: Is there any way to (via slic codes) to un-randomize this and lock certain civs into certain starting techs? Further, if there was a way to make a non-researchable, non-tradable tech, it'd be possible to create civ-specific units....if you wanted to....I thought they were neat, but a bit overblown in Civ3.

Again, very easy but you need to come ou with a list for all 63 civs If you make the list i do it for you.

	25-09-2002 22:23									#63
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Hmmm.....okay...you're on!

Anybody care to see custom units for each of the Civs, or just customized starting techs to give each a bit of a unique flavor/starting position?

I guess the first thing I need to do is scare up a tech poster and dig out my history books so I can make it fairly accurate.

63 Civs? I didn't see that many on the picklist! Uh oh....am I missin' something? (another newbie question, no doubt!) LOL

-=Vel=-

	26-09-2002 00:58									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Is there any way to (via slic codes) to un-randomize this and lock certain civs into certain starting techs? Further, if there was a way to make a non-researchable, non-tradable tech, it'd be possible to create civ-specific units....if you wanted to....I thought they were neat, but a bit overblown in Civ3.

As for unique civ techs, this can be done without SLIC by creating a set of dummy advances - one for each civ, and then have that dummy tech, along with another normal tech, lead into a dead-end tech that will activate the unique unit/building/wonder.

I've already been able to set up dual tech trees without SLIC (one for human and one for the AI), complete with unique units/buildings/tile improvements for each tree. With this concept, you could also set up several mini-tech trees for the player or the AI.

The downside is that diplomatic advance trading/advances from goody huts have to be turned off (easily done) and the civs and their tech have to be preset in the Editor for a Scenario.

Maybe there is a SLIC way to do this though (tying an advance into a particular civ). Suggestions????

(Wait a minute - In strategies.txt there is a section of code that prevents certain techs from being traded!!!!!!!!) The trick is to SLIC in the unique advances at the beginning of the game without the editor.

	26-09-2002 01:47									#65
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Maybe there is a SLIC way to do this though (tying an advance into a particular civ). Suggestions????

That should be fairly trivial - I certainly remember SLIC functions for identifying what civ a player is.

	26-09-2002 01:55									#66
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There is a better way to give unique advances, units, wonders and buildings, just use the mod functions, and then you won't have the problem with tech trading.

code:

mod_CanPlayerHaveAdvance
mod_CanCityBuildUnit
mod_CanCityBuildBuilding
mod_CanCityBuildWonder
mod_CityHappiness
mod_UnitAttack
mod_UnitRangedAttack
mod_UnitDefense

	26-09-2002 01:57									#67
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Hmmm...I dunno....the notion of tech trading is such a good one, it'd be a shame to nix it for unique (civ-specific) units. Perhaps there's another approach tho? I mean, if each civ has a unique identifier, perhaps we could just tie that identifier TO a unit, which would accomplish the same thing. Or, perhaps we could give each civ a free (or really cheap) wonder that would in turn, allow for the building of their special unit(s).

Of all the things we could copy from civ3 tho, this (unique units) would be, IMO, the least important. Assigning a unique mix of techs (and perhaps even going so far as to give inhenent civ-specific abilities that would, in and of themselves, function as wonder-style abilities (easiest method of implementation would be a "start of game" feat of wonder" that's tied to a specific civ, with each civ getting some small boon.

Stuff like that would go a long way in making each civ a unique play experience, especially given the variance in starting positions on the tech tree. Could make for some interesting variants....

-=Vel=-

	26-09-2002 02:08									#68
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:simply: I agree

Velociryx you should have ago at SLIC (then again so should I)

	26-09-2002 02:50									#69
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I musta cross-posted with Martin...I like that solution, too! Simple and elegant! Coolimus Maximus!

As to SLIC....::shiver:: I dunno....I'm an okay idea guy, but when it comes to the nuts and bolts of it....I fear I lack the patience for that.

Hmmm....A ctp, Candle'Bre Mod was sugessted over in the CB forums tho....intriguing....

-=Vel=-

	26-09-2002 04:13									#70
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Along with your cool reports Velociryx it seems you have dragged all the modders around here to create a new version of the Super Apolyton Pack or of their own mod.

	26-09-2002 10:38									#71
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quote: Originally posted by hexagonian (Wait a minute - In strategies.txt there is a section of code that prevents certain techs from being traded!!!!!!!!) The trick is to SLIC in the unique advances at the beginning of the game without the editor.

This is the key that will allow civs to have certain specific techs unique to themselves AND the ability to trade all the other techs. (non-SLIC variety)

And Martin has the SLIC variety. Again, we are on the path of a solution.

	26-09-2002 20:01									#72
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One possible problem with unique units for 63 civs: that uses up 63 sprites, doesn't it?

Another thought: is it necessary to make the enabling techs non-tradeable? You *might* be willing to give up a unique advantage if the price was high enough. This wouldn't be worthwhile with the AI, but could be an interesting element in MP...or could be overkill with players jockeying for the best combos.

	26-09-2002 21:50									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard One possible problem with unique units for 63 civs: that uses up 63 sprites, doesn't it?

Yes, one of the reasons why I am not a fan of unique units, ala Civ3 (we don't have enough room for 63 more sprites!). I'm much more in favour of giving civs fixed starting advances and make this differ per civ, and giving each civ at least *some* unique AI routines (IE Mongols focus more than other civs on building military units, especially mobile ones, Phoenicians focus on navy and colonizing other continents, etc).

Note BTW that the default game has only 42 civs (IIRC), but 63 is the *maximum* number of civs you can have. The only mod that actually has (or rather, will have) this many civs is my HotW mod, but that's far from ready for release...

	26-09-2002 22:32									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Yes, one of the reasons why I am not a fan of unique units, ala Civ3 (we don't have enough room for 63 more sprites!). I'm much more in favour of giving civs fixed starting advances and make this differ per civ, and giving each civ at least *some* unique AI routines (IE Mongols focus more than other civs on building military units, especially mobile ones, Phoenicians focus on navy and colonizing other continents, etc).

The only way to breack the 200 sprite per type limit would be to hack the ctp2.exe. It should be possible to do it like the Civ2 no limit hack, but I expect it would be a lot more difficuilt to do it, as the ctp2.exe is much bigger, to alter all these 200 hundrets of course it could also be a lot of 199 to search for in hex.

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Note BTW that the default game has only 42 civs (IIRC), but 63 is the *maximum* number of civs you can have. The only mod that actually has (or rather, will have) this many civs is my HotW mod, but that's far from ready for release...

The UI will a small problem the additional civs will only selectable by modifying the userprofile.txt.

-Martin

	27-09-2002 03:19									#75
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You don't *need* extra sprites, but it is better to have them of course.

	27-09-2002 16:34									#76
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Is it really necessary to worry about 64 civs? As martin points out the UI would be a problem(It already has difficulty in showing all the info it should!). In terms of a single game 42 should be enough to add enough variety.
Heck - If you could achieve upto 8 sets of civ specific stuff(sprites/advances/techs) to use in a mod for the single player game that might be nice for some people.
Still I much more like the idea of each civ starting more or less equal(a few random starting techs), and depending on their start locations and the types of terrain and goods they have access too, this opens up the civ specific stuff - so it's back to terrain/Good dependant advances/units(?) - Basically if a civ doesn't have access to say a horse good then how can it develope horse rideing? If it hasn't got deposits of Iron then how can it develope Iron Age advances? If it hasn't got acces to construction grade stone then how could it build the Pyramid wonder?
This i think is what would be great to achieve(if it is even possible?).

That way you won't be forced too much to play certain civs because they have a better UU or what ever.
One of the main problems with this is trying to implement it in diplomatic exchanges or in the trade system itself(if you haven't got horses trade for them with another civ to open up the tech tree for your civ).

I know a number of the guys here have been looking into these possibilities and most of the reports are good. So it's just a matter of time before CTP2 will wipe the floor with Civ3(et all) and the strategic depth that is possible to achieve

Now Vel, if only you can get a positive response from Activision about that source code, imagine the fun Dale,Pedrunn,Locutus,Martin,IW........well just about everyone, could have with that! And imagine the game we could all be playing

	27-09-2002 17:54									#77
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Now Vel, if only you can get a positive response from Activision about that source code, imagine the fun Dale,Pedrunn,Locutus,Martin,IW........well just about everyone, could have with that! And imagine the game we could all be playing

Modding ctp2.exe that would be the ultimate power. And it would at least improve my C++ skills.

-Martin

	27-09-2002 18:06									#78
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The problem is that we'd all mod the exe in different ways...

	27-09-2002 18:10									#79
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Thats the "problem" you have now with the original game

	27-09-2002 18:17									#80
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Yeah that will be a huge problem so the documentaion will be important, all the changes and additions should be commented and everyone has to take a look on the new code. Finnally we have to decide what should be included. But first we should wait until we have the code.

-Martin

	27-09-2002 21:31									#81
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Actually i am against creating new concepts with the EXE. It is just an unique file that need to be over written at most. And i dont like this kind of privacy invasion.
Therefore I would only like it to fix things like the PBEM, sprite numbers and fix, upgrade, improve or create some slic functions and events...

Last edited by Pedrunn on 27-09-2002 at 22:12

	28-09-2002 00:43									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Pedrunn Actually i am against creating new concepts with the EXE. It is just an unique file that need to be over written at most. And i dont like this kind of privacy invasion. Therefore I would only like it to fix things like the PBEM, sprite numbers and fix, upgrade, improve or create some slic functions and events...

Yes bug fixing would have the highest priority. I think of the sea city sprite bug and of course breaking the sprite limit, I think this one should be easy and the first thing I could do. But what is if we get the design document, why not implementing all the ideas in it, but then we would have a complete different game. Another feature I would like to see what be an overworked UI. Actual it does not need to be visible at the surface, but modding it without changing the ctp2.exe was one thing we all tried. So we need at least the possibilty to define our own windows that will work with slic.

-Martin

	28-09-2002 17:09									#83
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Why dont we start a thread to set priorities of changes for the source once we have it!?!

	28-09-2002 18:44									#84
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Maybe you should wait until you get the code first. Although i would be surprised, nay shocked, if Activsion didnt consider it seriously.

If the modders here fixed the bugs and "added" a fully working PBEM and Hotseat mode, more people on 'poly who never considered buying CtP2 would do so. Even Activision could add the patch to the offical packaged game