24-09-2002 02:00									#1
	Questions about WLTK days, and leaders...... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ok, I know how to get "we love the king" days, but what exactly do they do for you? Is it tied to which tribe you are using? I thought i saw that somewhere. I RTFM, but, imo, the manual sucks for precise information.

And two, does each tribe only get a set number of leaders? I saw somewhere there was a list of the names of the leaders for each tribe, maybe like 4 per tribe? Once you get those listed leaders, can you still get more?

	24-09-2002 02:17									#2
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I believe you can continue to get great leaders.

As for the WLTK day I believe they give you a happiness and production bonus.

	24-09-2002 02:59									#3
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GLs: You keep getting them... the names just recycle.

WLTKD: Not tied to any tribe / civ. You get them when all cits are happy, and the city is not starving. They also (significantly) reduce corruption.

And yes, the manual sucks, but 'poly rules!

	24-09-2002 03:55									#4
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WLTKD is available to all civs, and occurs on a city-by-city basis. While a city celebrates WLTKD, corruption and waste are reduced and the chance of the city culture flipping to another civ is lessened (whether spontaneously or through a propaganda effort. It's greatest effect strikes me as the corruption / waste reduction -- great to let farawy cities celebrate in WTLKD at size 6 for some time in order to build the appropriate corruption fighting infrastructure to make an aquaduct and further growth have some value.

In order to celebrate, a city must meet four criteria: (1) must be at least size "6" (2) must have no unhappy citizens; (3) must have at least as many happy citizens as content citizens; and (4) must have sufficient food to feed the enitre citizenry (a food shortage of one bushel - even if it takes 30 turns to cause a starvation, will still knock the civ out of WLTKD as soon as it happens).

Examples: (1) size 5 town, all citizens happy = No WLTKD; (2) size 8 city, 7 happy citizens, I unhappy citizen = No WLTKD; (3) size 8 city, 4 citizens happy, four content = WLTKD.

Catt

	24-09-2002 05:21									#5
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quote: Originally posted by: Theseus And yes, the manual sucks, but 'poly rules!

Actually as far as game manuals go, I found it to be above average. If there were a manual capable of defining and explaining the intricacies and nuances of every aspect of the game, it would not fit into the box – we would be buying a 1000 page book with a CD stuffed in it for about 2-3 times the price that we paid for the game (and probably still would not satisfy some.)

As for WLTKD, Catt’s definition could not be improved upon, but then no manual would tell you

quote: Originally posted by: Catt a food shortage of one bushel - even if it takes 30 turns to cause a starvation, will still knock the civ out of WLTKD as soon as it happens

	24-09-2002 07:28									#6
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I once had 55 leaders, so using all of the names has no impact.

	24-09-2002 07:57									#7
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55????

what happened?

I'm lucky to get 3 if I'm Milataristic.

	24-09-2002 10:07									#8
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I thought WLTKD only reduces waste?

Or is it that the courthouse and police station only reduce corruption, and WLTKD reduces waste as well? I find this confusing, because the term "corruption" is often used to mean "corruption and waste", or so it seems to me.

So could someone clarify for me precisely
1. What reduces corruption?
2. What reduces waste?
and if you want to make me really happy
3. Exactly what/how great an effect does each have?

	24-09-2002 10:24									#9
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Exactly. WLTKD, i know they are obviously good. So they reduce corruption? Or is it corruption and waste? Or is it just waste? And by how much? This is what i was looking for in the original post in this thread.

	24-09-2002 10:44									#10
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I thought it increased production by 50% or so! While at the same time cutting corruption by half. But everytime a thread about WLTKD pops up I start having doubts ! Is anybody out there with a definite statement?

So long...

	24-09-2002 13:14									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Kingof the Apes 55???? what happened? I'm lucky to get 3 if I'm Milataristic.

I was the first time I ever had more than 6-8. It was a huge map 16 civs at Monarch, I was Rome. 6000 yrs of war, most against all civs, often 5 or more at a time. The AI of course sent the troops in in manage numbers, and that was the early waves, nothing over the low twenties in one turn. I was burning up elites and even had a tank make a leader, then I upgraded to MA and it made another leader. I was using them to built any old structure, jus to get rid of them. I was so funny that if a tech was going to drop a new Wonder, I did not even bother to hold back a leader and just figured another was coming soon. I never did eliminate many civs, I think the game ended with 12 of us left. Oh, I set it to conquest so I had to go all the way to 2050. I will not do it again, as it was a lot of work. The next game I did not get a leader until the year 1954. go figure. I have only one other time gotten more than 8 and it was 26. Current EMP game has only 4 leaders as Rome and I may not have any more wars as I have too big of a lead for the AI to come after me.

	24-09-2002 13:26									#12
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I thought the Only Improvement that reduced corruption was the Courthouse, i though the Police Station (cop shop) only reduced war weariness???

Maybe some one needs to explain this to me to!

	24-09-2002 13:36									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Lucarse I thought the Only Improvement that reduced corruption was the Courthouse, i though the Police Station (cop shop) only reduced war weariness???

I think the PS also reduces corruption (patch 1.29)

	24-09-2002 14:49									#14
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quote: The corruption due to number of cities depends on these parameters: 1) Optimal number of cities, Nopt This is an integer number equal to the optimal number of cities for the current map size, multiplied by a factor that depends on difficulty level. Both these values may be found in the editor. The result is rounded down. Edit for 1.21f: Courthouses, police stations, and WLTK (waste only) each increase Nopt by a fourth, for this city's corruption calculation. Edit for 1.29f: The Commercial trait also increases Nopt by 25%. The above parameters are combined to get corruption due to number of cities, Fc, in this way: Fc=Ncity / (2*Nopt), if Ncity <= Nopt, or Fc =Ncity / Nopt - 0.5, if Ncity > Nopt, NCity=number of cities

Read the whole thing in this excellent thread about corruption.

Everything you wanted to know about corruption

	24-09-2002 22:03									#15
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quote: Originally posted by JohnM2433 I thought WLTKD only reduces waste?

You're right - sorry, I misspoke. WLTKD only reduces waste (shields) not corruption (commerce).

quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer I thought it increased production by 50% or so! While at the same time cutting corruption by half. But everytime a thread about WLTKD pops up I start having doubts.

It doesn't increase production - but the reduction in wasted shields offers a similar end result - less wasted shields = more producing shields = faster builds.

To echo Tiberius' suggestion - read alexman's corruption thread to get a general sense (there's no requirement that you actually run the calculations that alexman divined ).

There is also a simpler summary (without the detailed formula) by alexman in the FAQ thread here.

Catt

	24-09-2002 23:11									#16
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So I guess that's it. The corruption thread u linked shows that WLTKD only reduces WASTE (ie, SHIELDS lost to corruption).

Hmmm, i was thinking there was more of a benefit than that before. Maybe in civ1? Wasn't there a population explosion type thing too? Like your granary only had to be 25% full for an increase or something? I thought there was more to it than just increased shield production due to waste reduction.

I could be wrong though.