18-07-1999 01:26									#1
	A "Mod of All Mods"? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm talking about the idea to combine the best mods into one(with their creator's permission of course)

What do yout think?

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Markos, Apolyton Civilization Site

	18-07-1999 02:10									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

That's cool. Hey I just e-mailed you I believe at Markos Giannopoulos. It's a qestion I goota know. Anyways , any improvment for CTP is always cool.

	18-07-1999 02:39									#3
	Tired of ads?

Hey, i asked that question 2 weeks ago, but everybody said they were working on mods just like that themselves, but nothing has been heard from them since.

I been playing this game alot multiplayer lately and have noticed several thing in need of fixing, but then i don´t wanna reinvent the wheel so to speak.

But i can´t commit time on a daily basis so to speak...

	18-07-1999 03:19									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

Sounds like a great idea Markos. I wouldn't know how to do that, but I'd love to see CD's 4.2 mod combined with the newer sprites people are making up. And throw in one of the new color map modes. Also add the mods that warn you who is bombarding you, and what was just built in a city.

	18-07-1999 03:42									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

You know, I loaded that age of enlightenment on my computer, I saw no new improvements on my packet. is something wrong. Will these new mods have new graphics?

	18-07-1999 04:17									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I also think that it is a great idea Markos, but I don’t think it could be a "Mod of All Mods for a few reasons,-

-Some mods are simply incompatible with others (different governments, unit firepower etc)
-Some people are interested in mods which keep CTP in a certain era, such as ancient times or whatever.
-People will (hopefully) continue to develop new features, which will make the "Mod of all Mods" out of date.

Why I think that it could be very useful is if it were to be aimed at all new purchasers of CTP, or those who have exhausted the possibilities of the boxed version and want to get more enjoyment from CTP. It could then be a Beginners Mod / Basic Mod or Composite Mod.

For what its worth, in my opinion I think that it should include CDs 4.2, (with sprites of all his new units),Dominiques build mod as modified by TP. ( I haven’t tried any of Harlans stuff yet) and a decent color file for the radar map.

And if it could all be put in a separate folder in a manner similar to Axelmans mod creation utility, it would make everything much easier than my current patchwork collection of mod "bits."

(Now all we need is someone who can do this )

JimMac

[This message has been edited by JimMac (edited July 17, 1999).]

	21-07-1999 01:16									#7
	Got spare money?

Ok... I now have a list of what I think is the essential ingredients for the improved CTP.
1. The official Activision patch
2. CDs mod 4.2 (with the odd change, such as bringing forward infastructure to Stone Working to enable the "peaceful player" to produce something other than military units at the begining of the game.)
3. Biljirs Color.txt file. I have tried several and find this to be not only the most useful but also the most easy on the eye.
4. Dominiques Build mod. I am happy to stick with this version until there is an English language version of TPs. Although I think TPs idea of random ranking updates sounds great.
5. Harlans Graphic Modpack. This adds some neat graphical enhancements.

Am I missing anything?

I remember that when CTP first came out, it received a lot of criticism for game imbalances and lack of atmosphere. I believe the above mods largly overcome those criticisms. Now if only the (mythical?) next Activision patch improves the Diplomacy and AI military tactics, we could have a clear Civ2 beater.

JimMac

	21-07-1999 01:33									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I can easily agree with this list, especially as it seems that the mods are combatiple(alter different files)

One note, dont we need unit graphics for CD's mod?

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Markos, Apolyton Civilization Site

	21-07-1999 01:35									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

JimMac or Markos or whomever is in charge of this effort, you have my permission to include the Graphics modpack I've made in your Mod of all Mods. A couple of thoughts though.

You shouldn't include the official patch as well. Let people download that seperately cos otherwise the mod will become way too big. Just make a big note: "must have patch first!"

A lot of people don't have the ability to download really huge files. So you should make two versions. One is one huge download, the other breaks it down into pieces of less than 1 MB each.

Like CD has done, it would be great to have all the files go into their correct directories automatically.

You should wait till the PowerSLIC pack is ready. Also look at the "Sprites for CD's mod" thread- you should wait till Pintello sends that to you and include that. Then the package will seem more complete.

Finally, how will you deal with updates, and who decides what gets added to this modpack and what doesn't?

	21-07-1999 02:06									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

oh yes, the patch most probably can not be in, and it would make it to big

"how will you deal with updates"
Hmmm, one part updated, all mod updated?

"who decides what gets added to this modpack and what doesn't?"
this forum?

as for the other comments, all valid...

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Markos, Apolyton Civilization Site

	21-07-1999 02:41									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I would also ask Harlan's qustions... who decides... and updates. I posted a string awhile back regarding standardization. I think this all-in-one is fine but would still like to see mods to text files posted 2 ways. A new txt file for those that choose to overwrite, and just the specific changes to that file, for people like me who have modded and re modded. I don't want to overwrite what I have at this time. This is the reason I've looking for a text editor that can compare 2 files.
Standardization of graphics, at least the sprites, should be the new sprite for those that want it... and the associated tiff's for those that want to change colors or whatever. We already have a game full of hard to edit sprites. Don't want to see your work recolored, edited or maybe even improved... then don't submit.
If you wanted to establish these as guidlines for your downloads I would certainly comply with anything I send along.

Dogfish

	21-07-1999 02:59									#12
	Remove this text

One other thing I'd like to see in a "mod of all mods" is a mod that adds the most important of the tribes that Activision left out, especially the Arabs and Aztecs. None of the mods I've seen are exactly what I think is needed, since most of them either take out tribes, or concentrate on a specific area like Eastern Europe.

There are, what, 3 or 4 tribes that could be added before the game startup menu is full and, in the spirit of "CTP as it should have been", I think it would be nice for the "mod of all mods" to fill it.

Just a thought.

	21-07-1999 03:44									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think its to soon to make a "mod of all mods" we should a least wait till the second patch is released. So we can make existing mods compatible with that before combining them. Otherwise your going to be back at step one.

	21-07-1999 04:16									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The next patch could be vaporware... or they may choose to develop something marketable... a new amazing stupendous (puchasable) add-on/upgrade mod package. Of course they may wait to see the features of Civ III and try to keep up with the competition.

Dogfish

	21-07-1999 08:54									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No need to wait for the second patch... we might be all elderly or dead by then at the rate they're releasing updates! Anyways, once that comes out, the files can be modified to work with that easily enough.

Biljir, my modpack adds Aztecs and Arabs and others, though I also get rid of many civs like the Nigerians and Nicaraguans. So thats already in the planned Mod of All Mods, though I think a different name is needed for that.

	21-07-1999 15:38									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

But I like the Nigerians .

And the Australians, and the Irish, and the Native Americans...

And I suspect, if you look really hard, you can even find someone who likes to play the Canadians

	21-07-1999 18:55									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Then they can add the nigerians...

Personally i hate starting a game and find out im playing against the jamacians or whatever! It´s like playing against the smurfs or the three stooges!

	21-07-1999 19:06									#18
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Hi All,

Harlan mentioned me in here so I will tell ya'll what I can contribute to all this. I have altered the relevent Sprite, Icon, Unit, etc. files and add the relevent graphics files to CD's Mod so that all the new units have aleast unique Sprites for all the new units. Also, the new Sprites also are true representations of the new Units. For example, the Mounted Archer now uses a different Sprite than the Horse Archer, the Spy Satellite is a satellite, the Helicopter is a Helicopter, the Cruise Missile and the Nuke have different graphics, etc. The only graphic that has not changed is the Alphatransporter which CD uses the Rift Gate Sprite for. One important note here is that not all the graphics are animated, and not all of them have the additional graphics that are used in the Library etc.

All the images I use are available either on the site here, or are some that Harlan was kind enough to provide to me. Harlan has also provided a new Catapult graphic that is an improvement on his previous one to me today. However, I will not have a chance to change it in the game till I get home from work tonight. If you are interested, when I have made the relevent changes to the graphics related files I can e-mail it to you.

Also MarkG, I am in the process of moving to Florida, so the e-mail in your files will not be valid after Monday. People can still e-mail me at Timothy_Pintello@boscomm.net though, so how would I go about getting that changed in this forum.

Timothy Pintello

	22-07-1999 06:44									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

If there is any interest in a small program which enables The user himself to choose which mod he wants to add and which he doesn’t want to add, then I think it would be fairly simple to write, and even more simple if The ”modmakers” where able to cook some rules together regarding how a ”modpack” should look like in terms of filenames and so on.

I would be able to set aside some time for the coding of this program, if there is any response or interest regarding this post.

Ideas regarding all of The above would be appreciated


Enslave them all!

Thomas Diemar.

[This message has been edited by Diemar (edited July 21, 1999).]

	22-07-1999 09:44									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Diemar, before the FW times, the civ2 equivalent(more or less) was the ModPack Manager, and it was one of the hotest files around
The answer to your question is "hell yes!"

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Markos, Apolyton Civilization Site

	22-07-1999 17:55									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well I’m talking about a program that can intelligent compare and merger the ctp files. But in many cases The right ting to do is to append The changes to The ctp files with The include command.

If this program is to be very good I would need to dictate some conditions for those modcreators who wishes to utilize this Mod Manager. For example, it would be nice with a info file that contain some words on The changes which The mod do. This info file should be written so that I could use the info in The manager, to prompt The user whether or not he/she want to include this or that change to The game.
Without this info file my job at programming this manager to be user-friendly would get allot harder.

I would like some response from those modcreators out there on this, while I get started on looking into the structure of all these ctp files, which can be altered with slic.

Enslave them all!

Thomas Diemar.

	23-07-1999 11:05									#22
	Tired of ads?

As a mod creator, I say thumbs up to any program anyone makes that helps in any way. So yes.

	23-07-1999 22:27									#23
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Sounds like a great idea!

SLIC mods can easily be used by this program as they can be addad as separeate yourfile.slc files and then just use the line
#include "yourfile.slc" in script.slc!

	24-07-1999 05:13									#24
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Wasn’t that what I just said?

Enslave them all!

Thomas Diemar

	25-07-1999 04:14									#25
	Got spare money?

Mark,
What's the consensus then, is this going to happen or is going to be put off? If you're not going to do this I think you should consider some guidelines for mods to txt files and graphics. I've talked about this before and the reason's seem obvious to me...
Dogfish

	25-07-1999 04:47									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

"is this going to happen or is going to be put off?"
well, I think we were stalled at the finishing of the TP mod(which I believe that has come to a more or less finished(for now anyway) form) and the remaining(?) sprites for the units that CD adds.
Once this is achieved, we can move on...
and not to forget to mail CD about it, I think we have everyone else's "ok" on this(dont we?).

Other than that, is there a volunteer for doing the "merging"?
If not, I will give it a try after my vacation(which starts on Monday)

"you should consider some guidelines for mods to txt files and graphics"
If you(e.g. this forum) gives me a set of guidelines, I'll happily post them in the(now not existing) ctp file submission page

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Markos, Apolyton Civilization Site

	25-07-1999 06:46									#27
	Got spare money?

Markos,
I may be the only one who feels this way, so I'd like to see if you get other responses... By my own rush to get all I could get done, I'm modded out. I don't know what has been changed where or if it was my change or someone elses. Things work... but I can't install any mods that overwrite entire txt files. I would like to see that available to those who can use an easy install like that but also a file of specific changes and where they go.
As far as sprites... I know that people like to change colors or improve the sprite somehow... the tiff's and the makespr script should be included. I also think if there were more working examples of the scripts available as models or to hack around with, there would be more people creating sprites.
We already have a game full of unmodifiable units... we should try to keep all mods as open and flexible as possible.
Also, is there anyway to change the topic heading of a thread? The one I started with questions about Paint Shop has become filled with some good info on animated sprite creation... I just wonder if people who don't use paint shop skip over it.

Dogfish

	26-07-1999 18:06									#28
	Got spare money?

I’ve started on this CTP ModManager. The First thing I’m concentrating on is The comparison and merger of The ctp files.
I will be monitoring this thread for suggestions regarding this program. These ’small’ programs tend to grow in complexity as you discover new details that could be added, so don’t count on this program being finished within just one week.

MarkG, perhaps we could combine our efforts on this program, especially if you have any experience writing code that deals with sprite-graphics. Email me if you are interested in this.

Enslave them all!

Thomas Diemar

	28-07-1999 10:18									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well while the "MOD compiler" program is in the works why don't we just go around every few months or as the need arises and create mods with the most popular features that we have stumbled across people could vote for their favorite fix and we could name it something like "The mother of all mods ver x.x" The Creators with mods featured could be the MOD squad!

You can pick your brain but it's impolite to pick someone elses.

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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
The mark of JM
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	28-07-1999 14:54									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Can’t figure out whether or not The last post from PickMyBrain was sarcasm or what!

Maybe it’s just me

Enslave them all!

Thomas Diemar