24-09-2002 14:07									#1
	What IS the point of the stealth fighter? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It can't do air supremacy (why?)
and it can't bomb better than the "WWII" bombers

	24-09-2002 14:49									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

its just for show...



dont build the damn thing if u dont like it!

	24-09-2002 17:06									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

In RL, it can't do Air Supremacy either. It was built for use with precision strike in mind. The SB is still better though.

	24-09-2002 17:27									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The term "fighter" is a misnomer In the game, just as in reality the stealth fighter is a bomber or ground attack vehicle.

quote: From air force-technology.com The mission of the aircraft is to penetrate dense threat environments and attack high-value targets with high accuracy.

I have never built one as the stealth bomber is available, but if construction time were to become an issue I would consider it's use.

	24-09-2002 20:18									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The point of the Stealth Fighter is that you can increase its strength in the editor to an 8 (I left its RoF at 2), and that in an intense air defense environment it is still safe to use.

	24-09-2002 20:52									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Its possibly because you don't have the patch 1.29 until i upgraded precision bombing or air sup never worked, now it does.

	24-09-2002 21:50									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If you use the editor to give it Air supremacy, you can make it a nice upgrade to the jet fighter.

	24-09-2002 22:12									#8
	Support Apolyton

I've always believed that it is simply a less powerful but half-price stealth bomber.

And if you do mod it to allow air supremacy, be sure to also mod it so that it has attack and defense values - otherwise, it will lose every dogfight it engages!

Catt

	24-09-2002 22:35									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

It can do recon with low chance of being shot down? But I'm not sure you can be shot down on recon missions, so...

-Alech

	25-09-2002 00:29									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Akaoz It can do recon with low chance of being shot down? But I'm not sure you can be shot down on recon missions, so... -Alech

You won't get shot down doing recon. But since you mention it, a dedicated recon aircraft would be a nice addition.

	25-09-2002 01:32									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I rarely build them, but when I do it is usually because a city can crank them out. With precision strike enough of them can demolish a city.

	25-09-2002 07:52									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I rarely ever get to the point where I can build stealth units. So not only is the Stealth Fighter useless to me, the Stealth Bomber is also useless.

	25-09-2002 09:42									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

But if you did get that late into a game, the stl bomber is very useful. No concern over jets on air patrol, much larger range, too bad they still miss as much. Turn of all victories except conquest and you will get to use them.

	25-09-2002 12:09									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 But if you did get that late into a game, the stl bomber is very useful. No concern over jets on air patrol, much larger range, too bad they still miss as much. Turn of all victories except conquest and you will get to use them.

They only miss as much because they are probably bombing Mech Infantry, and perhaps those MI are in a metro (assuming they get the metro bonus during bombardment). OTOH, IRL the stealth bombers are being used as single bombers instead of in formations of dozens of bombers as in previous wars.

To simulate guided bombs (as opposed to iron bombs), perhaps their bombardment strength should be increased 12 or 16, which could be quite devastating. (Oh no, not another trip to the editor! )

	25-09-2002 13:52									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Lucarse Its possibly because you don't have the patch 1.29 until i upgraded precision bombing or air sup never worked, now it does.

I have got the 1.29 patch but I don't appear to have a precision strike option anywhere. in the manual it says to press "P" but that doesn't do anything.

	25-09-2002 15:33									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Mr Tactical Grace,

Its the swirly concentric circly type button down with the command buttons or indeed the'P' key,

You may need to keep you finger on the P key while clicking on the city you want to reduce to rubble.. you may need to repeat this.

	25-09-2002 20:02									#17
	Remove this text

TacticalGrace, surely you have the Smart Weapons advance and version 1.29??

	25-09-2002 20:12									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Smart Weapons advance... I see. Thanks!

which does lead to the question what flamin' use are stealth fighters until you get Smart Weapons

	25-09-2002 20:21									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by TacticalGrace ... which does lead to the question what flamin' use are stealth fighters until you get Smart Weapons

With a bombardment of 4, not much, even AFTER Smart Weapons. That's why I changed mine (see above).

	26-09-2002 02:24									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by LordAzreal I rarely ever get to the point where I can build stealth units. So not only is the Stealth Fighter useless to me, the Stealth Bomber is also useless.

If you want them to be useful, edit properties so have "hidden nationality" like the privateer. AI doesn't do much, and still don't hit all the time; but is a nice way to get back at that annoying civ you don't want to take to war YET. Once war starts their only value is if trying to reduce AI happiness by using smart bombs.

-- PF

	26-09-2002 23:32									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The name "Stealth Fighter" is not always a misnomer. It just depends on which air craft you are talking about. In reality the F-117, which is called the Stealth Fighter, is really a light bomber. It was designed for conducting precision strikes. The F-22 Raptor is the Air Forces newest toy. It too is a "Stealth Fighter", but unlike the F-117 it was designed to be a real bad a$$ in air combat, independently targeting 10+ enemy air craft and shooting them down with out being seen. So, I guess it is up to you. Would you rather have a unit that is hard to shoot down and can do smaller precision strikes (as the F-117 has a very small pay load) or would you rather have the ultimate air-suppremecy fighter.

	29-09-2002 17:02									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

True, the term "fighter" doesn't always mean that the aircraft is used to the attack other aircraft. Like the F-117, the F/B-111 was a small bomber. However, the F-22 isn't exactly the greatest fighter built either. True, it's fast and it's manuverable. But, in exchange for it's speed and manuverability some things had to be given up. It may be able to target 10 enemy aircraft at once, but it can't shoot that many down as it can only carry 8 missiles (at most) inside of it's missile bays. Carrying more missiles on the outside of the aircraft would reduce it's stealth abilities. It's stealth abilities, by the way, are already far less than those of the F-117. In truth, the F-22 can be seen by radar, just no easily. Of course, the Air Force would never admit that, not at the steep price of the aircraft.

	30-09-2002 01:47									#23
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Honestly, its not like any of you work for these defense contractors. So how would anyone really know the exact specs of a fighter aircraft not even completed yet? That being the F-22. You are all basing these numbers either off of old figures, or assumptions. Some of which might be true, but don't try to pass it all off as fact.

	30-09-2002 02:55									#24
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: From the US Air Force Equipment Files F-22 RAPTOR - ADVANCED TACTICAL FIGHTER AIRCRAFT, USA The F-22 Raptor advanced tactical fighter aircraft is being developed for service with the US Air Force from the year 2005. The USAF requirement is for a fighter to replace the F-15, with emphasis on agility, stealth and range. By 1990, Lockheed Martin, teamed with Boeing and General Dynamics, had built and flown the demonstration prototype aircraft, designated YF-22. The first F-22 fighter aircraft was unveiled in April 1997 and was given the name Raptor.The decision to proceed to low-rate initial production (LRIP) was authorised in August 2001, when Lockheed Martin was awarded a contract to deliver 10 F-22 by 2003. A further 13 aircraft were ordered in February 2002. The F-22 is planned to be operational by December 2005 and to enter full rate production of 90 aircraft per year in 2006.The USAF has a total requirement of 295 aircraft and the first operational wing of F-22 Raptors will be based at Langley AFB in Virginia, eventually replacing F-15 Eagle aircraft.During flight tests, the F-22 has demonstrated the ability to 'supercruise', flying at sustained speeds of over Mach 1.5 without the use of afterburner. Assembly of the first operational F-22 began in March 2001. In September 2001, the F-22 successfully launched an AMRAAM air-to-air missile against a target drone during tests. Operational testing is expected to begin in April 2003. DESIGN The F-22 construction is 39% titanium, 24% composite, 16% aluminum and 1% thermoplastic by weight. Titanium is used for its high strength-to-weight ratio in critical stress areas, including some of the bulkheads, and also for its heat-resistant qualities in the hot sections of the aircraft. Carbon fibre composites have been used for the fuselage frame, the doors, intermediate spars on the wings, and for the honeycomb sandwich construction skin panels. COCKPIT The cockpit is fitted with hands-on throttle and stick control (HOTAS). The cockpit has six color liquid crystal displays. The Kaiser Electronics Projection Primary Multifunction Display provides a plan view of the air and ground tactical situation including threat identity, threat priority and tracking information.Two displays provide communication, navigation, identification and flight information. Three secondary displays show air and ground threats, stores management and air threat information.A BAE SYSTEMS head-up display (HUD) shows target status, weapon status, weapon envelopes and shoot cues. A video camera records data on the HUD for post-mission analysis. WEAPONS A variant of the M61A2 Vulcan cannon is installed internally above the right air intake. The general dynamics linkless ammunition handling system holds 480 rounds of 20mm ammunition and feeds the gun at a rate of 100 rounds per second.The F-22 has four hardpoints on the wings, each rated to carry 2,270kg, which can carry AIM-120A AMRAAM or external fuel tanks. The main under-fuselage weapon bay has the capacity to carry AMRAAM AIM-120A or AIM-120C missiles, and the joint direct attack munition (JDAM).The Raytheon AMRAAM air-to-air missile is an all-weather, short- to medium-range fire-and-forget missile, with a range of 50 nautical miles. The side bays can be loaded with Lockheed Martin/Raytheon AIM-9M Sidewinder all-aspect, short-range air-to-air missiles. RADAR The AN/APG-77 radar has been developed for the F-22 by the Electronic Sensors and Systems Division of Northrop Grumman and Raytheon Electronic Systems. The radar uses an active electronically scanned antenna array of 2,000 transmitter/receive modules, which provides agility, low radar cross-section and wide bandwidth. COUNTERMEASURES The aircraft's electronic warfare system includes a radar warning receiver and a BAE Systems Information & Electronic Warfare Systems (IEWS) (formerly Lockheed Martin Sanders) missile launch detector. NAVIGATION AND COMMUNICATIONS The TRW CNI communications, navigation and identification system includes an intra-flight datalink, joint tactical information distribution system (JTIDS) link and an identification friend or foe (IFF) system. Boeing is responsible for mission software and avionics integration. The aircraft has a Northrop Grumman (formerly Litton) LTN-100G laser gyroscope inertial reference, a global positioning system and a microwave landing system. ENGINE The F-22 is powered by two Pratt and Whitney F119-100 engines. The F119-100 is a low-bypass afterburning turbofan engine, providing 156kN thrust. The F119 is the first fighter aircraft engine equipped with hollow wide-chord fan blades, which are installed in the first fan stage.Thrust vectoring is controlled by a Hamilton Standard dual redundant, full authority digital engine control (FADEC). The FADEC is integrated with the flight control computers in the BAE SYSTEMS Astronics vehicle management system.

Uhmm, 1, what are you talking about? Or are you working for a defense contractor, trying to violate your national security agreement to tell us something our government wants to keep quiet?

	30-09-2002 03:17									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

True the F22 will be less stealthy with missiles on external hardpoints, but it will still eliminate the opposition long before being detected itself. Which was the reason for building it...

	30-09-2002 06:49									#26
	Got spare money?

exterior missiles would make any stealth plane extremely unstealthy, so it would be a mistake to provide one with them.

iirc, stealth planes rely on contoured lines and radar absorbing material to avoid giving off a radar signal, missiles just don't get very stealthy which is why they are kept internally.

so i'd be surprised if they 'eliminated the opposition at long range before being detected' though of course, I like to be surprised

	30-09-2002 16:29									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Check this: http://www.af.mil/photos/fighters_f22_0009.html

	30-09-2002 18:36									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

yup all munitions carried internally. guess the US has some common sense after all!