24-09-2002 14:19									#1
	Wonder Movies Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Do we know yet that PtW is going to have wonder movies? I thought that was one of the shining points of Alpha Centauri. It would be quite an investment of time and money for Firaxis, but it would have also elevated the game to the next level.

Just my opinion. Yes, this is my first post.

	24-09-2002 14:32									#2
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Wellcome to Apolyton, laissez-faire.

We don't know for sure that PtW is not going to have wonder movies, but I'd bet my salary for a year that it won't. (Don't try to make the bet with me, though, the sum doesn't worth it )

PS This is my first post, too...with my new avatar

	24-09-2002 17:01									#3
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I'll quote from civ3.com:

quote: We have created a beautiful and fun world in Civ III and felt that the Wonder movies of the past would take you out of that world and interrupt the gameplay experience. In Civ III, building a Wonder triggers a reward screen that captures the flavor of the Wonder movies without disrupting the flow of your game.

I see no reason why Firaxis would have changed their attitude toward wonder movies in the meantime.

	24-09-2002 17:32									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I'll quote from civ3.com: We have created a beautiful and fun world in Civ III and felt that the Wonder movies of the past would take you out of that world and interrupt the gameplay experience. In Civ III, building a Wonder triggers a reward screen that captures the flavor of the Wonder movies without disrupting the flow of your game.

Or, with different words: we had to cut some costs, and many people skip wonder movies after some games, so we can safely remove them and survive

No way to see the movie come back. I hope at least they add the Wonder stats and game effects on the Wonder Picture, as some graphic MOD already did.

And a decent movie for every different victory path must be a need! How can they only make a good "launch the starship" movie and released "half baked" diplomatic victory screen?

	24-09-2002 17:37									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith And a decent movie for every different victory path must be a need! How can they only make a good "launch the starship" movie and released "half baked" diplomatic victory screen?

You are absolutely right. The diplomatic and cultural victories leave such a bad taste in the winner's mouth.

I don't know about the domination or conquest victory, since I've never achieved one

	24-09-2002 18:09									#6
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Thanks for the welcome. I have been "lurking" for a while now. Finally got myself involved.

quote: We have created a beautiful and fun world in Civ III and felt that the Wonder movies of the past would take you out of that world and interrupt the gameplay experience.

Actually, I thought the movies in AC helped to further involve me in that 'world'. I remember the first time I ever played it and ended that evening (or early, early morning) thinking I really had transcended into a god. I agree with Naismith in that they must be trying to cut costs. Well, the product suffered IMHO.

	24-09-2002 23:21									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I don't know about the domination or conquest victory, since I've never achieved one

Be sure: These screens suck, too. I support the idea of victory movies as some kind of reward, but i don't think wonder movies are needed (In AC, I looked at them one time, then I always skipped them).

Btw, do you know the movies in WarCraft III? If Firaxis could hire the artists who made THESE... that would surely be worth seeing!

	25-09-2002 01:24									#8
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Somewhere else I saw a Firaxian explain simply that the benefits of wonder movies didn't justify the investment. Most people only watch them once...yada yada... I think they should stick to that justifacation rather than trot out this "gameplay experience" stuff.

	25-09-2002 02:20									#9
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I remember reading in an interview that the movies cost a big chunk of the development cost for SMAC and that the payoff wasn't worth the expense. These days if you were to bother putting them in and they weren't up to the level that, say, Blizzard does, people would complain anyway. I'm sure Blizzard spends a pretty penny for their movies.

	25-09-2002 05:22									#10
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Yes, WCIII movies were unbelievable. Very intense.

	25-09-2002 05:28									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

But the movies are so cool! It is a shame that they are gone. I bought SMAC when it first came out and I still, all these years later, watch the wonder movies when I play (which is often). Combined with the voice-overs they are, IMHO, the best piece of eye-candy ever devised for a game. So many games (Warcraft III is a prime example) fill their cut-scenes with dialogue that is just abysmal. That Paladin wiener in the first act of Warcraft III has lines that are the script-writing equivalent of scrubbing a file across your teeth. ogod - make iT STOPPP!!!! SMAC, OTOH, has witty, intelligent quotes that develop the characters while informing and amusing the listener. Fantastic stuff.

	25-09-2002 05:36									#12
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Actually, now that you mention it, it's the voice overs and little quotes stories I miss much more thean the full blown movies. Especially the brain in the box one.

	25-09-2002 05:38									#13
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Firaxis, I want SMAC 2 with full production values and an AI that actually understands how to play (I don't care about the scenario editor though for SMAC).

	25-09-2002 08:49									#14
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YES, we need a good movie for every victory conditon.

	25-09-2002 16:31									#15
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A movie for each victory (and loss) would be good, I don't need them for each Wonder.

	25-09-2002 22:09									#16
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Ok, I was one of those who used to support the addition of wonder movies to Civ3, but, if we take into account that this probably won't happen, I'd be satisfied with movies for every type of victory and loss.

(Well, dreaming is for free, isn't it? )

	25-09-2002 22:46									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Alexnm Ok, I was one of those who used to support the addition of wonder movies to Civ3, but, if we take into account that this probably won't happen, I'd be satisfied with movies for every type of victory and loss.

Maybe (I say MAYBE) somebody is able to mod CivIII so that we can include victory movies. There has to be some sort of .ini or .txt file that determines if you see a movie or just a boring victory screen...

If someone finds out whether I am right, we just need to get some nice movies...

	25-09-2002 23:39									#18
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm A movie for each victory (and loss) would be good, I don't need them for each Wonder.

I agree with this completely. Wonder movies I would skip. but the ends are soo lame, need something.

	26-09-2002 01:39									#19
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The ends are the epitome of all your game. Imagine playing through a game for 20 hours + and then, after bloody battles and a cunning management of your empire, you finally become the number one, the leader of all civilized world, uniting all nations under your leadership, and then... poof. "You have won a diplomatic victory."
What? Where are the triumphal parades, with people waving at me when I get to the United Nations, and then receiving the respectul applause of the other leaders, and going up the stairs that lead to the highest place above all, where I say to all the others: "Now, my fellow leaders, we have entered in a new era of cooperation and mutual satisfaction... And I'll provide the cement that will unite all of us under one and only leadership"... And then a bunch of beautiful women would suddenly appear, totally naked, and...

Well, you got the point.

	26-09-2002 04:17									#20
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Alexnm What? Where are the triumphal parades, with people waving at me when I get to the United Nations, and then receiving the respectul applause of the other leaders, and going up the stairs that lead to the highest place above all, where I say to all the others: "Now, my fellow leaders, we have entered in a new era of cooperation and mutual satisfaction... And I'll provide the cement that will unite all of us under one and only leadership"...

And suddendly the opposing leader take one of his/her shoes and start to wham it on the table...

quote: And then a bunch of beautiful women would suddenly appear, totally naked, and... Well, you got the point.

No I haven't. Please give me some more detail and a few pictures...

BTW, I suggest you keep that movie on a first person view, so you don't have to bother with the gender of the leader. OTOH, about the bunch of beautiful woman I haven't any gender complain

	26-09-2002 23:30									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Alexnm What? Where are the triumphal parades, with people waving at me when I get to the United Nations, and then receiving the respectul applause of the other leaders, and going up the stairs that lead to the highest place above all, where I say to all the others: "Now, my fellow leaders, we have entered in a new era of cooperation and mutual satisfaction... And I'll provide the cement that will unite all of us under one and only leadership"

I'd rather like to see my troops surrounding the UN building and my voice to shout: "Leaders of the world! You have thirty seconds to declare me the ultimate king and ruler of all your countries or else...!"
Oops... must be my German roots... better forget that!

	27-09-2002 01:09									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Caliban I'd rather like to see my troops surrounding the UN building and my voice to shout: "Leaders of the world! You have thirty seconds to declare me the ultimate king and ruler of all your countries or else...!"

	27-09-2002 17:32									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

There you have it; I'm a builder, not a warmonger. Hey, they could have movies for both styles!

	27-09-2002 21:20									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Alexnm There you have it; I'm a builder, not a warmonger. Hey, they could have movies for both styles!

Yes! But that could get complicated...

	28-09-2002 13:53									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Really, think of the game size!

	28-09-2002 23:12									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Considering that you'd probably have the option during installation to have them remain on the CD, I dont think it would be too much of a problem.

	29-09-2002 22:43									#27
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As this is the time of 80 GB+ hard drives, hard disc space will not be the problem.
But maybe one CD would be too small! They would have to release a DVD only for wonder/victory movies... well, I could imagine buying it...

	30-09-2002 02:51									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Caliban As this is the time of 80 GB+ hard drives, hard disc space will not be the problem. But maybe one CD would be too small! They would have to release a DVD only for wonder/victory movies... well, I could imagine buying it...

A DVD rom is a good large media, but many PC haven't a DVD drive included, so it can be a problem.

Another option should be a pair of CD:
1) Install CD for game exe and libraries, only used during install, and
2) Run CD (protected as usual, for Infogrames money protection ) including graphics that could be loaded runtime or installed first with a full install.

But the distribution media cost I bet is not the main cost of a large use of wonder and end movies...

	30-09-2002 23:32									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith A DVD rom is a good large media, but many PC haven't a DVD drive included, so it can be a problem.

You don't have a DVD drive?? Hm... at least they are spreading VERY fast, so this is becoming a considerable market factor... I mean you can make money with it!

	01-10-2002 02:52									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Caliban You don't have a DVD drive?? Hm... at least they are spreading VERY fast, so this is becoming a considerable market factor... I mean you can make money with it!

Sorry, I dion't explained myself: I have a combo DVD+CDRW on my personal notebook (about 9 months old), but just for example, the notebook I use at work (about 2 years old) simply have a CD Rom drive (no DVD, no CDRW). Many entry level PC still are sold without a DVD here in Italy (CD drive 40x is more common).

I remember some flame less than a year ago because the game required a 1024*768 screen to run (again, a trouble with many notebooks built a couple of years ago). I was considering a workaround with a couple of CD.
You surely notice that most games aren't sold on DVD still, because the CD is the common base for many players.

But that's irrilevant: Firaxis isn't committed to deliver any wonder movie AFAIK, so a plain CD will be more than enough.