24-09-2002 15:13									#1
	GA Government Tired of ads?

Our game has virtually forced us to have a GA soon, if not at all so I pose to the literate populace of Apolytonia a question:

Do we change our government to Republic the turn before we build the Sistine's Chapel?

Upon initial thought, it a simple "yes, of course", however, we are in a long and Major war. War weariness will pose a problem in a Republic and could thwart our effort to take the Persian homeland.
If we switch to Republic in the middle of a long war, does war weariness pro-rate itself back to the begining of the war, or simpely from the moment we switched governments?

I am not for switching governments in the middle of a GA as it would be one turn of NO production, NO science and NO Lytons.

This is not an easy choice, but switching in the middle of the GA might prove to be the best alternative.

	24-09-2002 16:18									#2
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Soren Johnson dixit :

basically, there is a war weariness factor that is maintained the same way throughout your entire game, regardless of your government type or war status. The only time this factor affects your citizens is if you are at war while in a demo/rep. Nonetheless, the war weariness factor is actually independent of your actual gov type. (This is meant to symbolize that citizens under a depotism are no less happy about being in a war; they just have fewer outlets for their unhappiness...)
------------------
Therefore, a change to republic will reveal the state of the WW factor and the consequences on unhappiness.

	24-09-2002 16:26									#3
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So then if we switched to Republic the turn before we built the Chapel, we would be hit by an instant and massive war weariness problem as we have been in a constant state of war for nearly the entire game.

This is not good.

If we want a GA at all, it looks like we'll have to do it in Monarchy and during a war (as we CANNOT put off either the Sistine's Chapel or the war with Persia).

	24-09-2002 19:43									#4
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Building the Chapel will not trigger a golden age. We have to produce wonders that cover both our traits, so to produce a GA peacefully means building the Chapel and one other wonder (probably the hoover dam).

	24-09-2002 19:59									#5
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal Our game has virtually forced us to have a GA soon, if not at all

How do you come to this conclusion? We may behind technologically, but we stand to some catching up when the War of Retribution is over. We will have more grassland, rivers, and luxuries than any TWO civilizations combined.

All the world shall tremble at our might. There are many successful strategies that depend on the AI being the source for tech, we could simply research the ones the AI tends to shun like Printing Press.

	24-09-2002 21:19									#6
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As Mtgillespie said sistine will not trigger our GA, I still would like it during the american campaign. Note: there will be a window between the two wars. So we can switch to republic then. The war weariness is based on being at war for awhile. If there is a break betwen the 2 wars 5-10 turns(thats how long knights will take to get to the american area), war weariness shouldn't trouble us for at least 5 turns and by then the war should be over or very close to over. so we should switch to republic immediately after this war is over.
Aggie

	24-09-2002 21:23									#7
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i am against an american homeland attack and i say wait with switching to rep. after we have taken persia!

	24-09-2002 21:25									#8
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quote: Originally posted by mtgillespie Building the Chapel will not trigger a golden age. We have to produce wonders that cover both our traits, so to produce a GA peacefully means building the Chapel and one other wonder (probably the hoover dam).

not to be dumb, or rude, but i think this view of wonders-through golden ages is false

as Rome, i`ve had the Collosus trigger an early golden age, and if memory serves me right (i left my civ3 guide at home ) the collosus only covers Commercial

im pretty sure you only need one of the two traits.

	24-09-2002 21:39									#9
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Very early versions of Civ III allowed a single traight to cause a peaceful golden age. (And later a single traight of the other could cause a second peaceful golden age.)

In both 1.21 and 1.29, you need to cover both traights to have a peaceful golden age.

A Golden Age under Monarchy will have the similar effect as for as money and luxary tht simply switching to Repubilc would. (In addition to extra shields.)

I think the biggest factor fo war werriousness is how many of the last 20 turns have you been at war, which extra weight for the most recent 5 turns.

	24-09-2002 21:40									#10
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AFAIK, covering ONE trait gives a % chance for a GA.

Do captured wonders count towards those, though. The Pyramids would complete our two traits and trigger the GA for sure if they count.

	24-09-2002 22:08									#11
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On 1.29 I have had a GA begun without both traits being filed- and by a wonder that filled niether! (As the mericans, I got a GA in building JS Bach's. I havd an expansonist wonder already, but Bach's only relegious)

I don't know about captured wonders- It would make little sense for the design team to have done that- I mean, if you don't get culture from it anymore, why would it give a GA?

	24-09-2002 22:47									#12
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UnOrthO: captured wonders don't give GAs, I'm 100% sure of that.
GePaP: what you're describing is either a bug, or a result of playing with modified rules. Were you playing in a scenario game or with a modified civ3mod.bic file when this happened?
If it's not the latter then it's a bug, because the 1.21 Civilopedia clearly states that you need to cover both traits for a GA.

	24-09-2002 22:51									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber If it's not the latter then it's a bug, because the 1.21 Civilopedia clearly states that you need to cover both traits for a GA.

Maybe the Civopedia was a bug.

Anybody else ever get the feeling that the Civopedia, the game, and the manual were written by three different companies that have never met?

	24-09-2002 23:01									#14
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This is a good question and one i would like to know the answer too. I doubt captured wonders trigger a GA, but because I don't remember it , doesn't mean it is how it is. If it is % chance of getting GA we need to really think about what to do.
Aggie

	25-09-2002 02:57									#15
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In civelopedia it says building wonders MAY trigger GA for civ w/ following traits.... Does the MAY indicate not a 100% guarantee?

	25-09-2002 09:29									#16
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If caputring the Pyramids does not fill the required trait for a GA then we would have no choice but to wait for a GA until we build the Hoover Dam as I fear our UU is too far out of date to be a contending factor.

	25-09-2002 19:24									#17
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Donegal I am sure that america has troops that we can mass chariots against and finally win, so I suspect we will get a GA then.
Aggie

	25-09-2002 19:30									#18
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A WarChariot only has to win one battle in a war, so all we have to do is weaken one of their outdated units to 1 hitpoint and whack it with WCs until it dies.

I think we should wait on the GA until we've got all the cities placed in Persia, Uber, and our gaps so they can all benefit from the GA.

	25-09-2002 21:53									#19
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A better strategy would be to take two, maybe three WCs along with two knights. The knights will attack spearmen whenever they show up and the WCs will attack archers, which they can easily defeat (the WCs are veterans and have twice as much attack as the archers have defense, and America's units are still probably just regulars).
After we get a GA, we move our WCs into the newly-captured American cities and upgrade them to knights and then continue to sweep through America (while garrisoning the captured cities with pikemen).

	26-09-2002 00:35									#20
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I think we will be a Republic for the American war, so we won't need War Charoits as police.

So send ALL the War Chariots up there. Either attack an archer / lowbowmen with it or else a weakened unit. As soon as it wins, upgrade them all to Knights.

Be sure we have 2 defense units on boarder cities along the French (and other) borders just in case the Americans get someone to betray us.

	26-09-2002 10:38									#21
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Sistine has been built...

Yet no GA

i think we're down to whacking americans with WC when 1hp left trick thing.

	26-09-2002 19:11									#22
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I wasn't expecting a GA from just building Sistine.