25-09-2002 13:15									#1
	the yellow dot in the info box Increase Your PM Length

During most of my games, at some point I become aware that a yellow spot has appeared in the upper left corner of the info box. It alternately resembles an iconic sun, or an extruded button; I think the sun was the original intent, but I've looked at it for so long I'm seeing things.

I've looked through the manual, and I've searched online in every way I can imagine (Apolyton's 4 char min on a keyword hurts), but I just can't find anything that tells me what this little splotch is supposed to signify.

Am I asking a really dumb question? Could someone answer it anyway?

	25-09-2002 13:56									#2
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It's your handy global warming indicator. It seems pretty inaccurate, IMHO, since it goes yellow almost as soon as you build your first factory and stays yellow for much of the game. Also, since global warming is driven by the AI as well as you, and since there are no treaties available to reduce global pollution, you either have to just suck it up or go raze their factories.

Anyway, that's what the yellow spot is....

	25-09-2002 14:46									#3
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Some people have referred to a RED sun. I am guessing that if you let things get bad enough the Sun icon will turn red. Its never happened in my games but the people mentioning it also are claiming to have major problems with tiles being changed by global warming.

	25-09-2002 16:20									#4
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Yes, it has three states (well, 4 if you count not there)

Yellow = low risk of global warming
Orange = at least one tile guaranteed to change, maybe more
Red = Well, lets just say, I hope you like playing on deserts

Every time I got it to red, at least 10 tiles a turn were changing. If you're not in the red zone, your empire is just not productive

	25-09-2002 16:41									#5
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Population is the primary cause not production. You will get your best production in most cities when you stop the poplation growth at twenty. This may be why I have never even reached a full orange. Only cities that have every tile mined that can be mined and still go over twenty are a allowed to do so in my games. Those have all been cities with a lot of flood plain tiles.

	25-09-2002 17:45									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Ethelred Population is the primary cause not production.

That's one reason why I almost never experience substantial Global Warming and remain unconvinced that it is truly global in nature.

	25-09-2002 18:30									#7
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quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Every time I got it to red, at least 10 tiles a turn were changing. If you're not in the red zone, your empire is just not productive

Incorrect. If you're not in the red, you haven't been launching enough NUKES

	25-09-2002 18:59									#8
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quote: Incorrect. If you're not in the red, you haven't been launching enough NUKES

Besides, nuclear winter should cool things off, right?!

	25-09-2002 21:29									#9
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I have never gone orange or red. And this is with large populous, producing countries. I take many steps to keep thins in line. Recycling, mass transit, ect.

	25-09-2002 22:19									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Barchan Also, since global warming is driven by the AI as well as you, and since there are no treaties available to reduce global pollution, you either have to just suck it up or go raze their factories.

Good point. Why didn't they include a Kyoto Accord diplomatic option, available once the UN is built? Reduces global pollution by 25%.

	26-09-2002 00:57									#11
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I do not have orange or red with cities of over 30. I never build coal planets, manufacturing plants and always put in all anti pollution structures. That keeps it down to an ocassional warming and it is likely due to AI as my pollution stat is 0 or very low once they are built. The way I mange to reduce global impact is to take their cities from them and sell of any factory they have and put in cleaning structures or raze the city. You go to the advisor screen very early in the game and they all had the little sun over their pictures, thanks alot.

	26-09-2002 01:33									#12
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I do not have orange or red with cities of over 30. I never build coal planets, manufacturing plants and always put in all anti pollution structures.

I rarely have cities much over 20-25 in pop, but I build factories, manufacturing and power plants. I still rarely experience much more than the occassional global warming message. I do build pollution lowering improvements though.

	26-09-2002 11:56									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Good point. Why didn't they include a Kyoto Accord diplomatic option, available once the UN is built?

I think for the same reason Espionage seems so half-a$$ed: they kinda rushed it out the door before they had a chance to fully implement/fine-tune everything.

Ideally, there'd be SMAC-like diplomacy available once the UN is built, with several types of resolutions that could be made (global warming treaties, free trade treaties, anti-nuclear proliferation treaties, sanctions for being naughty, and etc). All civs could propose motions, but the civ that builds the UN gets veto power over anything proposed (although doing so could be mighty unpopular). I think an "anti-slavery" UN resolution would be pretty cool: if passed, all civs would have to free (return, disband, or add to cities) any captured workers or face a global trade embargo.

Anyway, we’re just California Dreamin’, man. We won’t see anything like it anytime soon....

	26-09-2002 13:26									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Barchan Ideally, there'd be SMAC-like diplomacy available once the UN is built, with several types of resolutions that could be made (global warming treaties, free trade treaties, anti-nuclear proliferation treaties, sanctions for being naughty, and etc). All civs could propose motions, but the civ that builds the UN gets veto power over anything proposed (although doing so could be mighty unpopular). I think an "anti-slavery" UN resolution would be pretty cool: if passed, all civs would have to free (return, disband, or add to cities) any captured workers or face a global trade embargo.

That would be a nice addition.

The UN is soooooo useless

	26-09-2002 14:57									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Good point. Why didn't they include a Kyoto Accord diplomatic option, available once the UN is built? Reduces global pollution by 25%.

That would be nice - then we could newk the co-signatories and then sanction them for non-compliance

I find the sun seems to get whiter (progressing from yellow), just like it always did in CivII. I've never seen a red one. Maybe I'm too much of an eco-hippie!

I let cities get as big as possible (30+), but they rarely get bigger than that as I'm at war too much and I've got too many 'entertainers' keeping civil disorder at bay. I build improvements to reduce polution but as my sun gets whiter I get the odd square changing with global ( ?) warming. But I have not found great swathes of land changing. However, I always keep a small army of workers on hand to deal with pollution on any continent straight away. I only let pollution sit for a while if its on a continent I'm invading. I learned the hard lesson from CivII, when pollution could get so bad that all coastal squares could turn to jungle... really stuffed you up.


On that point though... who had the bright idea to make worker units loadable only (on transport only, not even helicopters I don't think), and not airliftable ? When I've just nuked the hell out of a continent and invaded it, am I supposed to live with all that mess until I can build workers there? If I can airlift Tanks, why not "army engineers" to build roads for them and other stuff, including cleaning up the radioactive sludge from around my newly aquired piece of real estate ?

	26-09-2002 17:04									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Barchan Anyway, we’re just California Dreamin’, man. We won’t see anything like it anytime soon....

Funny: here in Italy is quite famous a group of artist (?) know as California Dream Men (actually some are from USA, others from Italy).

Their show is based on a "Full Monty" striptease performance, quite popular in some theatre for women.

Back On Topic: the SMAC concept was great, but a bit too weak on the AI side (quite easy to "grease" some leader to vote for your political party). Probably Firaxis chosed to discard it when they realized they can't improve it for Civ III deadline: it seems a pity they didn't solved it for PTW, neither

	27-09-2002 11:50									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Adm.Naismith Funny: here in Italy is quite famous a group of artist (?) know as California Dream Men (actually some are from USA, others from Italy). Their show is based on a "Full Monty" striptease performance, quite popular in some theatre for women.

I was referring to the 60's song by the Mamas and the Papas. I'll bet the show is popular with the women, but do they have a California Dream Women group for the men?

	28-09-2002 02:11									#18
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by miccofl



In my games, it seems that the greatest factor in global warming is the use of nukes or nuclear plant meltdown. I once got into a great nuclear war with China about 1500 AD on Monarch. He hit me with only two (I had already built Star Wars or whatever it is that shoots down 75% of his nukes). I then demolished his civ and the rest of the earth with nukes while I built the spaceship. The massvie amount of gloabal warming was turning 20+ tiles per turn to plains or desert. The entire world was hills, mountains and desert in no time. The sun in the corner of the box was beyond red!

	28-09-2002 02:42									#19
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That is funny, what are you doing with SDI at 1500 AD.

	28-09-2002 03:20									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Egyptian The massvie amount of gloabal warming was turning 20+ tiles per turn to plains or desert. The entire world was hills, mountains and desert in no time. The sun in the corner of the box was beyond red!

Impressive! I really see the circumstances for SMAC now...!

But tell me: what does "beyond red" mean? Was it black or something?

	28-09-2002 04:54									#21
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quote: Originally posted by: vmxa1 That is funny, what are you doing with SDI at 1500 AD.

I asked myself a similar question the first time I built my first MA BC. But then I have never seen the “yellow dot” more red than yellow.

Have you hugged your tree today?