26-09-2002 19:41									#61
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Incidentally, Speer-a-mint, are you saying that because some boomers did things you don't approve of, entire generation should be condemned? Why?

	26-09-2002 19:42									#62
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Rah... Thumbs up.

Oh yeah, one other thing... if I can pay SS taxes to help pay for other peoples' grandparents retirement, now... then surely these young ones can give something back to me. I helped theirs... now they help ours. It works that way.

	26-09-2002 19:46									#63
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quote: Originally posted by rah My apologies. I assumed your ignorance was because you had never hit the cap limit. RAH

That too.

	26-09-2002 19:52									#64
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Yeah, our parents were smart and had lots of kids to ensure that SS would be solvent for them. Our generation was more conservative in those terms and we'll probably pay for it.

And I think if we did some research here, we would find that the baby boomers that post here are.....
More responsible.
and take more responsibility for their own actions,
Than those generation X and generation Y posters.

	26-09-2002 19:54									#65
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That's because those of you still around have learned from the mistakes of your youth.

	26-09-2002 19:56									#66
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Yep, and we're waiting for Generation X and Y to do the same.

	26-09-2002 19:57									#67
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quote: That's because those of you still around have learned from the mistakes of your youth.

I'd have to agree with that.

BTW, I'm still learning.

	26-09-2002 19:58									#68
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The leading edge of Gen X already has. God, in five years I'll be 40.

	26-09-2002 20:14									#70
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The leading edge of Gen X already has. God, in five years I'll be 40.

God... in five years I'll be 53. 40 doesn't sound all that bad

	26-09-2002 20:19									#71
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Yer old.

	26-09-2002 20:21									#72
	Re: Why will baby boomers get social security? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer I dont see why my generation's tax dollars should go to the baby boomers. Let's see all that they have done for me... 1) Have drugs spread throught America... these hippie baby boomers just NEEDED to smoke that weed and drop that acid. So now my neighbourhood got drug dealers and people ****ing up their lives cause they want to get high

Yup, drugs were never a problem before 1960. No one ever smoked opium or marijuana before then. Never.

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer 2) Make pre-marital sex common... they just couldn't control themselves and now we got single mother after single mother... fourteen year old fathers... children being beaten by their mothers because they look like their dead-beat fathers...

Yup, this was never a problem before 1960 either. No kid ever had pre-marital sex in the 40's. Good grief. I'll quote a British soldier commenting on the US pilots stationed in Britain during WWII... "The trouble with the Americans is they're overpaid, oversexed, and over here." People have ****ed like rabbits since the dawn of time.

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer 3) Make divorces more common... Where's daddy? the children ask, Why don't you love him anymore? Is it because of me?

"Mommy, why does daddy hit me?" "Because he doesn't love me." "Why is daddy still here?" "Because I'll go to hell if I kick him out."

"Mommy, why did daddy throw up in the back yard yesterday?" "Because he's a worthless drunk." "Why is daddy a drunk?" "Because he hates his life." "Oh, that must be my fault, mommy."

Shut up. Divorce does not cause the problem. The problem is people get married because they feel they have to and then have unplanned children and make it worse.

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer 4) Destroy the community... nobody cares about anyone no more. Everyone does their own thing (BE DIFFERENT, the hippies shouted) and there's no church establishment to unite and guide people

Hmmm. This started in the 50's when the interstates were built and everyone suddenly needed a carbon copy house with a white picket fence. This started with "America's Greatest Generation" moving to the suburbs.

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer 5) Make college inaccessible to the poor... why is it that most Ivy League schools (and plenty of middle range ones) lack Army ROTC programs, a program that largely pays for college in exchange for Reservist duty? Guess what pampered students from the suburbs demanded colleges get rid of because they hated the military...

State school is pretty cheap with financial aid. Granted it could be better, but it isn't that bad. Poor students don't get into college because they go to crummy schools.

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer I say let the old baby boomers starve to death... they have only caused me and millions of Americans suffering and grief... thanks

You're welcome.

	26-09-2002 20:26									#73
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The leading edge of Gen X already has. God, in five years I'll be 40.

The problem is that the BABY BOOMer covers a lot of ground and there are so many of them.

I'm waiting for the natural progression when Generation Y will start blaming Generation X. You guys have gotten off easy so far since the boomers are such a big target, but the natural order will return, soooooo Have FUN.

RAH

	26-09-2002 20:31									#74
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Well, I've never expected to get a cent out of the State when I finally get dragged from my job (kicking and screaming) so somebody will have to get all the cash I'll pay in.

	27-09-2002 03:32									#75
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Dunk:

Where in Philly you live at?

	27-09-2002 03:54									#76
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The fundamental problem with blaming a generation for setting up an environment which screws things up for future generations is... that they were just set up to do so by previous generations. There is a bit of truth to what Speer is saying, but he just applies it wrong.

True responsibility comes from realizing that our actions don't only affect us personally, but those around us, and our environment. You can't strip away these influences we all have on each other and claim it's responsibility any more than Speer can strip away personal choice and call it so.

	27-09-2002 05:45									#77
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Is it true that everyone in the US gets a government pension without means testing?

Also, with the Boomers, one thing that is happening now is people are healthier in retirement, which means old folks will still be a political force into their eighties or even nineties.

Most of you won't remember this but when I was kid people worked till they retired at 65 and then they pretty much dropped like flies over the next 5 years or were so crippled by illness they were politically inert. Anyone over 70 was considered to have done pretty well in those days just to have made it that far. There were exceptions but people above 70 were a small minority, mostly had little or no interest in politics and no political clout. That's all changed over the last 30 or 40 years.

	27-09-2002 16:01									#78
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Do you honestly think yhat your children and grandchildren will allow the government to stop making payments on Social Security? Not only is it the most successful anti-poverty program (so broekn it reduced elderly pverty by half ) but it is also the single most popular government program. Unless the US government falls (or we institute a society like that in Logran's Run), Social Security will always be there. No politician is stupid enough to ever let Social Security go down.

What Che isn't telling you kiddies is that Social Security is a great anti-poverty program for white females, a not-bad anti-poverty program for white males, a damn sorry anti-poverty program for black females, and a crime against black males. Check out pg. 8 of the following PDF document:

http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf

Now, I talked about this in a previous thread and nobody gave a damn, so I don't know why I'm going into this now but...

1. SS benefits are based upon your contributions into the program - you contribute the maximum amount, you're gonna get the maximum check. This means that Bruce Springsteen, Michael Jackson, and just about everybody you can name that makes over $100k/year for most of their working lives will get the largest SS checks.

2. If a married couple individually applies for SS, the rules state that unless the wife's total contribution is more than 50% of her husbands, she is not entitled to her benefits (yes, if you live in a family where the traditional gender roles are reversed, it still works the same way - the lesser earning partner doesn't get their benefits).

3. When the higher-earning spouse dies, the widow(er) will start to receive their own social security checks, and the checks that were based upon the higher income/contributions will cease to be sent.

4. SS claims are NOT transferrable upon death - once you're gone, no more checks for your survivors.

So, for example, you have Mr. and Mrs. African-American. Mr. A-A worked at the GM plant in Doraville, GA and had a pretty nice income - one that will eventually translate into $800/month in SS. Mrs. A-A worked for a few years, then took about a decade or two off to raise the kids, then went back to work. Because they wanted to save tax money, Mrs. A-A cleaned some Dunwoody homes for cash, raking in about $400/week, untaxed*. All told, her total SS contribution will come to a measly $225/mo.

Then they retire. Mr. A-A will likely get a pension (or a 401(k), I'm unaware as to how GM treats retirement benefits for factory workers) (I'm assuming that it is $1,000/mo). They both go to the local SS office to apply for their benefits...

... only to find out that they are entitled to receive ONLY Mr. A-A's benefits, because Mrs. A-A didn't contribute enough. So, instead of receiving $1,025/mo. of SS they will now receive just $800/mo. Unfortunately, Mr. A-A dies of a heart attack at the age of 68 (meaning that he actually lived slightly longer than average for a black male in America). Sometime after she buried her husband, Mrs A-A will notice that his SS check has stopped coming in. She hurries down to the SS office to see what has happened, and the brutal truth of the above 4 laws is revealed to her. She now has to survive on her husbands pension (luckily it IS transferable to surviving spouses) and her $225 SS check.

So, her monthly retirement income projections went from this before they retired:

Hubbies Pension: $1,000
Hubbies SS check: $800
Her SS check: $225
Total: $2,025/mo.

To this when they actually retired:

Hubbies Pension: $1,000
Hubbies SS check: $800
Total: $1,800

To after his death:

Hubbies Pension: $1,000
Her SS check: $225
Total: $1,225

Who here thinks that she is going to have to start cleaning houses again?

*If you think this sort of scenario is implausible, then you really need to experience life more.

	27-09-2002 16:05									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu It's not us who came up with it, it's Gen-X'ers pathetically trying to feel self-important. Or wait, was I Gen-X? It all is so confusing.

You're not. You've gotta be an American to be Gen-X, as "Gen-X" is defined (literally!) as the "tenth generation of Americans born since 1776."

	27-09-2002 16:13									#80
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Btw, under the current system, white people born before 1998 will get back "what they've put in." The problem is, of course, that you will earn a HORRIBLE rate of return on that money. For people born 1998 or after, the rate of return on their SS checks will actually be negative, meaning that they will NOT get back what they put in.

The first person to collect SS, Ida May Fuller of Rutland, VT, paid a total of $20 into the system - her first check was for $22! By the time she died in the 1960's, she collected over $18,000!!!

http://www.ssa.gov/history/imf.html

	27-09-2002 16:33									#81
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quote: I dont see why my generation's tax dollars should go to the baby boomers. Let's see all that they have done for me...

They gave you life, first, or you're older than you seem to be.

quote: 1) Have drugs spread throught America... these hippie baby boomers just NEEDED to smoke that weed and drop that acid. So now my neighbourhood got drug dealers and people ****ing up their lives cause they want to get high

Then I suppose that the cops that enforce drugs repression and who were born at the same time are also guilty ?

quote: 2) Make pre-marital sex common... they just couldn't control themselves and now we got single mother after single mother... fourteen year old fathers... children being beaten by their mothers because they look like their dead-beat fathers...

Strangely enough, it's in the society were pre-marital sex is the best accepted that there is the less underaged mother

But I understand that pre-marital sex offend you, it must interfere with your biggoted point of view of the world.

quote: 3) Make divorces more common... Where's daddy? the children ask, Why don't you love him anymore? Is it because of me?

Yes, I agree, forcing yourself to stay with someone you don't love anymore is just soooo better for both you and the children...

quote: 4) Destroy the community... nobody cares about anyone no more. Everyone does their own thing (BE DIFFERENT, the hippies shouted) and there's no church establishment to unite and guide people

Ok, everyone go back to church. That's just such a better way to endoctrinate people

quote: 5) Make college inaccessible to the poor... why is it that most Ivy League schools (and plenty of middle range ones) lack Army ROTC programs, a program that largely pays for college in exchange for Reservist duty? Guess what pampered students from the suburbs demanded colleges get rid of because they hated the military...

Amusing. In fact, where I live, the amount of people that went throught college raised from about 10 % in the sixties to more than 90 % now...

quote: I say let the old baby boomers starve to death... they have only caused me and millions of Americans suffering and grief...

Well, considering your own views, I would rather let YOU starve to death.
But I suppose you hold the Truth and then that I'm automatically wrong ?

	27-09-2002 18:14									#82
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JohnT.... very interesting and insightful. Certainly has opened my eyes up abit to things I hadn't known about, for sure.

But it doesn't change my opinion of what I think of those who feel that there should be no SS benefits at all.

Something is better than nothing, I guess.

	27-09-2002 19:53									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Dunk: Where in Philly you live at?

North of the city. Montgomery county.

	28-09-2002 03:42									#84
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Then get philly out of there... don't claim to be a Philadelphian when you're not! You're a suburban!

	28-09-2002 05:38									#85
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quote: Then get philly out of there... don't claim to be a Philadelphian when you're not! You're a suburban!

Man, I really hate this ****! Why do punks always have to claim they from the real city when they not? Round here, punks are always claiming they from Lincoln and I just go off on them. I mean, I'll get right up in their grill. I'm like "Where you from punk?" And they're all "I live on 64th and Leighton." So I'm like "Punk, that ain't the real city, *****! I live at 23rd and Holdredge, punk, represent! Go back to your punk ass neighborhood fool and leave the real Lincoln, NE to the hard core G's. Word."

Keep fightin' the good fight, Albert. We can't let these weak ass punks claim they street when they not.

	28-09-2002 06:43									#86
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara As I said, Social Security cannot become insolvent. The government will never allow it to happen. They will find the money to pay everyone what they are owed, because the politicians will all lose their jobs otherwise. The only way Social Security won't be paid is if the government itself becomes insolvent.

Consider this:

At the current rates, Social Security will become insolvent around 2017. Raising SS taxes and/or lowering benefits will extend this date. The two political parties each consider one of these options as taboo, so we do nothing.

Next, consider:

There is a historical theory revolving around American generations running in cycles. They predict a crisis stage will occur around 2010-2020. This would be an event equal to the American Revolution, Civil War, or Great Depression.

Perhaps the seeds of the next crisis have already been planted.