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OPD
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Birmingham UK
Jun 2002
time: 05:22
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thats the thing about the internet things you say can be taken the wrong way when tone of voice and other means of communication are denied.
I end up sounding like an arsehole when I'm only playing around.
anyway with regard to the not upgrading the bottom line is that the orders thread should have been started sooner and should have stated the definate number of turns to be played.
I am at fault and I'm sorry especially to Red who if he had the time could have prevented this.
There is no question that the Wills WC's should hav been upgraded of course they should.
I've said before and I'll say it again I don't want to do chats w/o the SMC present so that things like this do not happen.
As Red didn't know he had to do 5 turns of orders I had to stand in and make the decisions. At tyre 2 WC's rather than 1 were upgraded as we could afford it. Although as Shiber kept getting disconected and gepap wasn't playing along I had to be SMC as well. I can handle immediate SMC stuff but can't look at the long term picture so when it came to it I decided that rather than upgrade the remaining WC's at Wills, to give the FM the money.
This is not a case of not following orders it is a case of bad judgement on my part the FM could have probably done a GPT deal instead and the WC's could have been upgraded so that the swords wouldn't have been lost. In the furture Red will be given enough notice to decide and hopefully the SMC or a deputy will be there to make sure something like this doesn't happen.
Last edited by OPD on 26-09-2002 at 20:37
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Aggie
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Of GOW's half of BOB
Jun 2002
time: 23:22
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OPD, the SMC makes request to upgrade and then if there is money the upgrades happen. There was money and the money was available and the money went elsewhere to items not in the orders or items that were given lower priority in the orders(by the requestee). The thing is this, if a person makes plans based on something and that something doesn't take place plans should be stoped. This is most obvious in the SMC's plans which are based on us having certain troops I didn't want us charging Pesopolis with 3knights/horse+sword. When it came time to move and these conditions weren't met, the chat should have been stopped. My plan called for the upgrade of the horse and the 3chariots. Togas recalls in the chat that 3 units were upgraded, however of the 4 units designated only 1 was upgraded, so I suspect miscommunication was a serious problem and the people in the chat didn't realize(including you) that the units weren't upgraded. I also suspect this is way we didn't do a pure gpt deal for theology(even if more expensive, upgrading units is more important that a extra few gpt). I hope this was the reason and not "orders weren't given", because no other spending orders were given and yet that money was spent.
The fact is we need to fix this and perhaps the amendment will do it. By the way OPD i did PM and didn't get a response even though you had read the message. If I had recieved an I'll get back to you or any such message I would have waited, but since I recieved nothing I assumed you didn't know why they weren't upgraded either(not your fault, I give orders and watch every unit and sometimes I have to think what the plan was), thus I went to the people. Looking back I think you must have been very tired and not have seen the degree of upset this caused me, so I probably was a bit hasty, but if I hadn't of brought this to the public the amendment discussion wouldn't have started so there is something to be said for open forum discussions. This way the next prez won't make the same mistakes. OPD this thread is not meant as an insult. MWIA had a very similar discussion during one of our first turnchats and look how successful that term was in the end. Generally here is how this game works mistakes are made in the first chats, we learn and then we go on and do better and since we have 2 wonders already, you are already on an excellent path.
Aggie
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:22
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quote:
Originally posted by OPD
You weren't in the chat all the time but if you were you'd be surprised with how much people hassled me all the time and repeatedly question things that I had already explained. Thats why a thread such as this which undermines my authority to carry out the turns pisses me off. |
In a way I'd like to echo OPD's frustrations. I know that we have some very active and vocal and well meaning citizens who attend the turnchats and enjoy being involved, but there's a difference between helpful suggestions and hastling, especially OPD who is trying to do twenty things at once and doesn't really have time to answer questions in the turnchat.
I would suggest that we use the Minister's chatroom next time to do orders and leave the conversation and debate to the Dem room. This is how it was previously done to cut down on the spam.
I would also like to suggest that the people who attend the chat read the minister's orders thread before coming to chat. Please people, it's really frustrating to be asked five times if a certain order is going to be carried out when the order was already posted and should have been reviewed by the person asking. It would also be a good idea for the people to review the orders prior to turnchat and debate them then, instead of debating them as they are executed by OPD.
Also, when OPD replies in red that something was done, it's too late to argue about if it should have been done. The argument should have occured before the execution of the order.
As for myself, I would like to apologize for becoming edgy and annoyed as we entered the fifth hour. I blew off an afternoon's worth of work that I shouldn't have. I had hoped to get a few things done in the office before closing, but the turnchat went way too long for my tastes. I won't be there five hours again in the future.
Understand that telling me to "wait" or disagreeing as I'm giving orders in blue really p*sses me off. I imagine other ministers might agree. Why? Because in another chat room adaMada, E_T, and I are constantly discussing what the orders should be. We work out last minute changes to the orders, debate them, refine them, research alternative, and come to a final consensus before I propose the order in chat and without holding up the chat.
But more importantly, your distrust tells me that you don't think that I (and my deputies) have thought about the orders I'm giving, and that you don't trust us to give the best orders. That sort of distrust is very frustrating and I would agree with OPD when he describes it as "undermining our authority". I felt the same way.
I understand that some of you feel that it's in the nation's best interest to look at every option, every time, and to question every order given, and to some extent that is true. But it crosses the line when it becomes humiliating, frustrating, or causes excessive delays.
I want to encourage involvement by everyone in the game. Coversation and discussion about important decisions is always appreciated. I just want to ask that you give a little respect and trust to the people who were elected to make important game decisions at the times when the decisions are actually made. Thanks. 
--Togas
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26-09-2002 20:31
. One thing is I have already made plans based on the forces we have so I glad to inform everybody that we are fine militarily and we might turn this delay to our advantage. The plans I made call for bactra in 400,susa in 410/420 and tarsus in 430/440. I'll be more detailed when I have more time(but i have already done the math and it works). 
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