26-09-2002 08:44									#1
	UU of PTW civ thread....... Suffering from ads?

Just wanted to create a thread about the UU of PTW... I guess we can talk about existing UUs as well but wanna focus topic on PTW exclusive ones, and if any has info please share it here.


My opinions:

Mongols - They got a uber Knight, and description that I've read was cheaper knight but decreased stat. Now I wonder, no stat increase? If no stat change unit must be cheaper.... stat DECREASE? Unit must be SUPER CHEAP! it would really depend on which stat is decreased though to see if this unit would be awesome or not. if mongol UU is 4/2/2 (ah civ2 knights!), it would be awesome for offense at price being when ambushed by attack and being more vulnerable. If att decrease 3/3/2, it offensive effectiveness would be scaled down but would make more balanced unit (mobile legions in a way) and it still would be fairly good (though it still depends on how cheaper it is and theoratically it should alot cheaper). If stat decrease is both attack and defense... (3/2/2) that would just be like celtic swordsmen, and I don't see just how much cheaper they'd have to make it to just balance it.

	26-09-2002 08:48									#2
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Numidian Infantry - Another "mystery" unit. We really dont know if it will be another popular unit or just so-so uit. Description was attack and defense is increased, but costs more. I'm guessing each stats get bumped +1. making 2/3/1. That's quite useable... as it makes a archer that can defend as well as hoplite... and if my guess of cost increase is 10 more shield (50% increase), it would make it above very good UU (cause you still get pikemen quality w/ +1 att. unit early) if it is 20 more shield cost.. it gets iffy as that would mean you would have one numidian inf VS rivals 2 spearmen at the same price. And since the attack is +1 in my theory if this is the case it wont make a terrific attacker, just a primary defender that posess ability pick off wounded unit or attacker with low def like horsemen etc.

	26-09-2002 08:56									#3
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siphai - Calvary is a mobile unit that gets used ALOT in medieval era. Warmongers can direct techs toward military tradtion and get it quiote early to mid way in middle age era. Thus, the rivals defense competition, range from pikemen, musketmen to riflemen and eventually infantry where they are forced to be replaced by more advanced attackers. Their deadend evolution in upgrading also in an odd way can extend their service as when you are building tanks, ur existing calvary fills in the position for lack of tank units and get replaced by tanks as they die off. And in extreme circustance they NEVER become obsolete. For if you are denied of oil, you best mobile unit is calvary. adding +1 to the already useful calvary will extend their shelf life even longer, although at this late point in the game, adding +1 to a mod isn't as big significance as it was in early age.

	26-09-2002 09:01									#4
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Berserker - It could possibly be the best UU in the game according to description. Its a replacement of longbows and depedning on site, its rather unclear which stat gets upped.(some make it sound like both att. and def. and some either one) if berserk is 5/2/1, that could make a very effective infantry unit, as it is even better than knights at attacking. The ability to amphibiously assault units makes this unit more attractive and powerful. But We are still unsure of stat on medieval swordsmen that is to be included with the patch, so this berserk could be very useful or useless cause of swordmen upgrade, depending on time range in the two units are available and how two units stats are.

	26-09-2002 14:19									#5
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good analysis.

If the Numidian Infantry is going to be a 2/3/1 replacement for spearmen then it would be insanely powerful. The hoplite is already one of the best and most feared UU's in the game and it has one less attack than that.

At first appearences it seems like none of these UU's will be dud ones - the Koreans cannon UU will probably not be much good, but if they make big changes to bombard (which they might) then that could all change.

What are the others UU's - there is this four, the Korean Hwacha and the Spanish Conquistador and ... another two (??) - do we have any stats or info on these?

Last edited by FrustratedPoet on 26-09-2002 at 14:26

	26-09-2002 17:10									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II siphai - Calvary is a mobile unit that gets used ALOT in medieval era.

It's sipahi or spahi, whichever you prefer, but not siphai (I presume it's a misspelling, but others might not know that ).

	26-09-2002 17:24									#7
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The Arabs have a horseman (I think it's a knight replacement) and the Celts have the dreaded Gallic Swordsman (extra move).

I assume the Numidean Merc will cost at least 10 more than a hoplite, otherwise that'd be a bit excessive.

In the chat they said the Berserk would have 6/2/1 amphib. A real threat in the Middle Ages (and beyond).

	26-09-2002 17:40									#8
	Put an end to popups!

Numidian Infantry with 2/3/1 will be too powerfull to ancient age, except they need some resource or get a increased cost.
Same for Berserk with 6/2/1 amphibious. It's 3 points of advantage against longbowman.
The reasonable is units if 1 point of advantage, or no need of especific resource, like they done in others civ3 UU.

	26-09-2002 18:58									#9
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resource req. on numidian can make or break a civ... if you can't build a better defense other than warrior w/o resource : thats going to hurt you. Numidian is going to be a VERY controversial unit, whether it be good or bad. Cause as I see it, the description given will be So powerful or so weak.

I figured berserk would get +1 on all, but Berserks REAL usefulness will eventually depend on the new medieval infantries stats. For instance, if med.sworsmen is 5/3/1, it wont make much difference, but if itis 4/3/1, yea berserk would be great.

and sorry tiberius i type very sloppy.

and lastly, I'm very concerned with mongol knights as much as with the numidians. I can see just how powerful it would be with my friend, who's a total warmonger... I kno his war strategy cause we often play 2 people demo game and I don't want him playing with cheap mobile units!~ (w/ militaristic and expansionistic trait too! urgh...)

	27-09-2002 05:34									#10
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List:

Mongols: Keshik
Vikings: Berserkers
Ottomans: Sipahi
Spanish: Conquistadors
Koreans: Hwacha
Celts: Gallic Swordsman
Arabs: Ansar Warrior
Carthaginians: Numidian Mercenary

	27-09-2002 07:37									#11
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conquistadors treat terrain as roads and dont replace anything... but I wonder how good they are combat wise...

	27-09-2002 07:39									#12
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anyone know the stat on the 2 new unit medieval infantry andguerilla unit? I think medieval infantry would be critical into balancing berserk's usefulness/uselessness

	27-09-2002 15:50									#13
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The Numidian Mercenary is very powerful and the Chartaginians' traits are good, too. I might choose to play with them.

Oh, and Hannibal looks acceptable, too. I have problems playing with the Egyptians, seeing myself as a woman

	27-09-2002 16:48									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II anyone know the stat on the 2 new unit medieval infantry andguerilla unit? I think medieval infantry would be critical into balancing berserk's usefulness/uselessness

M. Inf. 4/2/1/cost 40, needs Iron
Guerrila 6/6/1/cost 90, needs nothing

Galic Swordsmen 3/2/1, cost 50, needs Iron (rep. Swordsmen)
Numidian Mercenary: 2/2/1, cost 30 (it's is still tweaked, could be changed by Firaxis)

You could find more info in "what I have found in recent chat" thread. (at PtW forum)

	27-09-2002 17:03									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Calc II conquistadors treat terrain as roads and dont replace anything... but I wonder how good they are combat wise...

I heard they replace explorer. I think they were designed as a fast capture and pillage unit, not a high strength combat unit.

	03-10-2002 08:15									#16
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really i heard they replace nothing

	03-10-2002 18:48									#17
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One concern that I had is with the Korean's Hwacha: If bombardment units are still unable to kill other units will this UU be unable to trigger a golden age? If not this will be a serious disadvantage. You would basicly be forced to get certain wonders if you want to get a golden age (and you *do* want to get a golden age).

	03-10-2002 20:04									#18
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Unless you are playing Diety getting a wonder GA is quite doable.

	03-10-2002 20:52									#19
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it can actually work for you instead of agst you, I hate getting ill timed GAs... but if you cant get the wonders.. ouch.

	05-10-2002 02:37									#20
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The Berserker sounds cool as hell, and not just because I think they're unbalancingly powerful. The only thing they unbalance in my eyes is the absurd focus on heaps of fast-attack units as the sole determinant of power... first, the Berserker is a foot soldier and still the undisputed heaviest attacker of its time, but its relatively poor defense and slow speed make it vulnerable to counterattack by knights and such, so it's not unstoppable. Secondly, however, it's an AMPHIBIOUS foot unit... if you load it on a galley, it can move three times as quickly and suddenly all those knights become a nonissue for you. The real implication of the Berserker hopefully won't be a gamebreakingly powerful ground-pounder, but a way to force the issue of naval power and thus make it really be worth something!