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wervdon
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No more often than it should come up, a game stoppage is not a big deal. I'd require a poll too, they are so rare and important that all our citizens should have their vote and a chance to try to persuade others.
We could also consider pre-polls. For example, we could poll now "If we get another GL in the next 20 turns, what should we use it for? (A) Forbidden Palace (B) Army (C) JS Bachs (D) Adam Smiths .... " Whatever other wonders are coming up in a reasonable time frame. One of those type polls should cover us for 3 or 4 turn chats, though we still may need to hold an official run off poll if it happens unless something had won very decidely.
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wervdon
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Oh and if its not obvious, we'd only need to pre-poll during times of declared war. Otherwise, its not very likely we'll be getting a great leader dropped from the heavens by the great bannana.
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wervdon
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Actually the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that pre-polling when possible is the best answer. If we just plan our turn chats on the assumption we will have a GL to use, then there's no reason to stop wether or not we end up with one.
quote:
Since we are still at war, it might be a good idea for a prepoll just in case we get a 3rd one, athough I think the choice is currently obvious given our techs (Army) so perhaps it could wait until there's a possibility that we could buy Invention or Music Theory. |
Actually if we pre-polled right now, there would be at least two choices between the army and FP. There might also be some soon to come wonders worth considering. I think most people would vote army though, but I wouldn't be comfortable if we just assumed that without doing the poll.
Maybe the ammendment should just say "In the absense of any existing and recent poll on the use of the great leader, then the game must be stopped to perform such a poll." We'd of course need to define recent, but every 10-20 turns should be plenty during a war to keep us prepared for the event of a GL.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:22
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If after the first turn a great event occured, like say England and Greece sign a Military Alliance to destroy us, would the Chat not be stopped?
I am for continuing play as much as the next person, but these are rare, potentially game altering events. The Game SHOULD be stopped, and the people polled. Now, if we COULD prepoll, sure, that would be great. But if for some reason we didn't expect our ONE elite to be enterring battle and he happens to pop a GL. YES, we should stop the game and poll the people. This game is for the people, to deny them any choice in such a matter would go against the fundamental reasons for which we created the Demo Game. To get EVERYONE involved, not jsut the people who make the chat or the Ministers.
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GodKing
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Detroit
Feb 2002
time: 00:22
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I have had several games where I was under attack, the city has only one elete defender and is surounded by enemy tanks. Usualy a receintly captured city. That defender generates a GL. Cannot move out as the city is surounded. Next turn the GL dies as the city falls. Or even if in the same turn. It happens to me often enough that I mention it and I suspect others will soon see as well.
Now, should we stop the game for something that cannot be changed? NO. We can make an effort to save him (which I do) but if fighting on multiple fronts one can only do so much.
Other times, we have already built one army, so we have met that requirement for the small wonders. There is only one Wonder that can be built. So there the options are wait X (say 20) turns for the next two techs or build the wonder (army is essentally mute at this point, remember). Do we stop and discuss? NO. It is obvious.
Now it is not obvious. We have not had the first army. We have the forbidden palice we can build (not that it takes forever to build normally, just is faster this way), we also have a palace jump we are contemplating. Now we need to discuss things. If I was present last time, I would have insisted on stopping as I would much rather have leo's workshop instead of michalengolos cathedral. So I would have insisted on polling the people to see if they would be willing to wait. Life goes on, I was not there, and those who were did what they felt was best. No recriminations on my part about this.
So, for my 2 cents, please, make it wise to poll the public, but in cases of obvious choice do not force the elected officials to sit and hold everything up for a week.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:22
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quote:
The purpose of this amendment is to provide instructions on what do to in case a Great Leader(GL) should emerge during battle.
1. The GL should immediately(once the game continues) be dispatched to a safe place for protection, preferrably to the city where he will complete his work.
2. It is recommended that as soon as the GL emerges(or as soon as feasible) that the game be stopped to decide the fate of the GL, as well as the destination city where he will meet his fate.
3. The President, Vice-President, SMC and City Planner, should discuss options for the GL. They should then poll the people, and the most popular option shall win. A pre-poll discussion thread can be started at their discretion, and should last no longer than three days.
4. The game will then restart as soon as practicable after the poll is complete.
5.The poll should last no longer than three days and follow the polling standards already listed in the Code of Laws.
6. In the event of a prolonged war, a Pre-poll may be used in place of stopping the game. Pre-poll results will remain current until the winning choice is completed and no longer available or there is a new choice to decide upon. |
Is this ready for polling?
Edit: Changed #6 from 'prepoll will remain current until one of the choices is completed...'
to '...until the winning choice...' No need to disqualify the poll if a losing choice is completed.
Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 01-10-2002 at 18:14
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jdjdjd
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of España
May 2002
time: 00:22
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GK, you're right with your scenario, see section two of the proposed wording, the word recommended is used, because of cases as you mention, they are rare, but we should not tie the hands of those playing the game too such an extent.
In most situations however, we lose nothing if we stop the game for a poll. On the other hand, if we do not stop it leaves the Pres or VP open to criticism for not making another decision.
Finally, three days does not have to be the limit, civman, thats what was propsed in the thread so I included it. I think they talked of three days to not hold up the game any longer than necessary, the poll is three days but there may also be three days of pre-poll discussion, thus thats six days waiting on the poll to complete. Many would prefer not to hold the game up that long, I guess.
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jdjdjd
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of España
May 2002
time: 00:22
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quote:
The purpose of this amendment is to provide instructions on what to do in case a Great Leader(GL) should emerge during battle. This amendment shall be an exception to any part of the current Code of Laws, especially with regards to timing of turnchats/turnthreads.
1. The GL should immediately(once the game continues) be dispatched to a safe place for protection, preferrably to the city where he will complete his work.
2. It is recommended that as soon as the GL emerges(or as soon as feasible) that the game be stopped to decide the fate of the GL, as well as the destination city where he will meet that fate.
3. The President, Vice-President, SMC and City Planner, should discuss options for the GL. They should then poll the people, and the most popular option shall win. A pre-poll discussion thread can be started at their discretion, and should last no longer than three days.
4. The game will then restart as soon as practicable after the poll is complete.
5.The poll should last no longer than three days and follow the polling standards already listed in the Code of Laws.
6. In the event of a prolonged war, a Pre-poll may be used in place of stopping the game. Pre-poll results will remain current until the winning choice is completed and no longer available or there is a new choice to decide upon.
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Made some grammar fixes ("do to" to "to do" and "his fate" to "that fate". Also, added that this amendment will be an exception to any other rule. I have the mandatory turnchat at close of an administration in mind when I add that.
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UnOrthOdOx
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Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:22
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...
We are a global community here. As such, we must give ample time to all countries of the world.
To deny people a chance to voice their opinion is to deny ourselves of our strength. We live on the variety of people and voices that come to this community. Not everyone can be on every day. I am one of the most active here, and I miss days now and then. This is a game, it is not real life. What harm is done when polling for three days to allow as many people as possible to see and have a say?
You bring up the US. We do not have elections in one day. We have them spread over several months. There is first the campaigning within the party. Then the Primaries, then there is extensive Campaigning, speaking, questioning, and polling all before that fateful day of elections. Here, we do not have a year to debate the subjects at hand. Often the debate continues inside the poll thread, sometimes influencing the very poll itself. More importantly, we are voting on issues, not candidates in this case. We lose nothing from stopping the game. These debates are the very foundation of the game, actually. It is why we are here. To debate, question, and play as one, not to play through with the greatest of speed. We do so in the swiftest way possible that also allows all to participate. It is the nature of the game.
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26-09-2002 19:58
The point is conceded. But in defense of the statement, I was only refering to the polling period itself which would probably best be described as Election Day. I in no way intended to mean we stop the pole when the sun sets on America... simply that a 24 hour period should be sufficient.
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