27-12-2000 06:15									#1
	First time I played civ2 in a long time and I lost to the ai! Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I feel the need to hang my head in shame. I learned a lot from these forums, but obviously I'm still doing something wrong. I was ahead the whole game, but suddenly out of nowhere the Vikings pass me up. How can I beat them when by cheating they can outproduce me and outresearch me? Why do I even bother building Isaac Newtons college? It seems futile to build up huge cities with good production and research only to have the ai pass you up by cheating. This game forces me to be a warmonger. the only drawback of civ2 I believe. You cannot play it peacefully (at least I can't).

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Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell; and spirituality is for people like me who have been there.

You're only young once, but you can stay immature indefinately.

"These are the cries of the carrots!" You see, Reverend Dissident, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust."
"Let the rabbits wear glasses!"
Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........
This is necessary.

	27-12-2000 23:04									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

whine whine, you sound like a pacifist bleeding heart liberal (EEEuuuuw, shiver, shiver). You can either change the game parameters to suit your concept of a civilized univervese, or adapt to the fiercely competetive but tactically inept AI. Regardless of its production or research, it does not know how to fight. It one starts getting to be a threat, prune it size 9even to making it a one city pet) or kill it. Set the options to reincarnate new civs when one is eliminated so that you can perminatly prune one that has a tech advatage and the new one will start back a few techs. If you allow one to grow unmolested it will eventually achieve a tech/industrial/size advatage the human tactics will not be able to handle and you be on the short end of interculteral darwinism.

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Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
Pontificator Pendanticus
older richer & wiser than you

	27-12-2000 23:35									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Lefty's got a good point DA. The AI doesn't plan; it just charges, piecemeal. You can plan. Look at your enemy. Find a weakness. Build your force. Attack. The AIs are not at all resilient. They can't handle a blitzkreig or a sustained assault.

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

	28-12-2000 02:12									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

even some of the most peaceful players agree that was is necessary for peace sometimes. Build up a small, but potent force, and drag the AI into a war it cannot win. Force it to divert it's resources from sci/trade to war. Put strong units at key chokepoints, and let the AI throw it's units at it. Continue building caravans/freights and watch yourself leave the AI in the dust.

I never realized the sheer power of caravans until my most recent game. I justinstalled Julius' ToT patch, so I decided to play a random Gigamap game. I only built 32 cities, and I was trailing severely in the early through mid game. I switched from Monarchy to Communism, let my cities begin to grow. I started making trade routes with the Spanish, who had some incredibly large cities. All the sudden my trade exploded, my science fell from a tech every 17 turns down to every 4 turns, and the rapid increase in gold acquired from taxes allowed me to build many needed improvements. All of this from a few caravans... So just don';t under-estimate their power. Had I started earlier on building them I would have faired much better, but I started about 20 turns too late, and the AI finished Apollo and launched a spaceship in two turns (they had over 60 VERY large cities).

	28-12-2000 02:41									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I for my part find it much easier to win without warfare. Fighting the AI is easy but pointless. Either go to AC or wipe em all in about three turns with Howies.

	28-12-2000 03:13									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

that's my point. I can beat the ai fairly easy with warfare. But I don't want to do that. I was trying to win peacefully creating a super science and super rich empire. I was raking in the money, but they ai surpassed me in science somehow depsite my magnificant economy. Bullsh!t. I had caravans up the yin yang. Science bonus' gold bonus' I had it all. I was doing every thing right. I just didn't want to create a whole bunch of dips and crusaders/knights to win the game. I wanted to stay on top throughout the modern age and build a space ship.

And I find it hard to believe it is easier to win peacefully. I have not been able to do this on the highest level.
[This message has been edited by Dissident (edited December 27, 2000).]

	30-12-2000 00:15									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

then that's your new challenge dis That's a great part about this game, there are so many challenges...

	31-12-2000 20:21									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This may sound stupid, but I've never actually encountered warfare (discounting barbarian uprisings) after the Renaissance age outside of scenarios. I've always played more or less the same way: kill them early or kill all but one surrounded city, then go to AC.
What's the easiest way to get to "modern" combat situations?

	01-01-2001 00:41									#9
	Got spare money?

play on a large small island map, its called search and destroy

	02-01-2001 17:55									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Hi Dissident

I had much the same problem as you, only able to win by war, having built 50-70 cities and then conquered twice as many.

However, I figured out (largely influenced by what I read in these forums) that I was not focused enough and took too long to do things. My main changes were:

- more caravans (you say you've done this one)
- very few defensive units
- rush building city improvements, especially the big ones (factory, man plant, sewer)
- very focused cities (science vs cash, units vs freight, types of space components)
- preparation for likely attacks by having very powerful forces in 2-3 locations near the most aggressive AI civs, to take cities in one turn when war broke out and accept the subsequent peace
- lots of spies and diplos to keep track of enemy science.

I won with a 1940 spaceship, full capacity, even though the AI had launched 5-7 years before me. I also had SDI in every city, built at least 5 wonders per age (mostly to stop the AI getting them) and they never built Manhattan either. (I sabotaged it when they tried)

Hope this gives you hope, and maybe even helps!
Fergus
[This message has been edited by Fergus Horkan (edited January 02, 2001).]